Ep 12: Fly Fishing New Zealand, with Mel Moss (Part 1)
Mel and I have been friends for years, and she’s one of my favorite people to fish with. So naturally, when she decided to spend a month fishing in New Zealand, I wanted to pick her brain about her trip and the logistics behind planning a destination fly fishing trip. Mel did her trip totally DIY, and she shares plenty of tips for anyone looking to do a trip over there. Of course, we also got into her stories of success and heartbreak. This is part 1 of a two-part series.
Instagram: @mossy_mel
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Intro
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Katie
You're listening to the Fish Untamed podcast where we talk all things fishing, conservation, and the outdoors. Today on the show I'm talking to one of my best friends, Melanie Moss. Alright, welcome to episode number 12 of the Fish Untamed podcast. Today I am chatting with one of my very best friends, Melanie Moss, who just got back from a month of fly fishing in New Zealand with her husband, Jarrett. So naturally when I heard that she was going to New Zealand, I wanted to have her come on both to hear about her experiences, but also to pick her brain a bit about what someone can expect if they want to do their own trip to New Zealand. Mel did her trip totally DIY, and not to take away from anyone wanting to use a guide, but But what I learned in this conversation was that it's totally doable to go to New Zealand on your own, completely do-it-yourself, and still catch the fish of your life. So the conversation was long enough that I divided it up into two parts. So this is going to be part one. Part two will come out next week. So if you've ever thought about Fishing New Zealand, and especially if you've thought about doing it completely do-it-yourself without the help of a guide, these two episodes are definitely for you. Obviously, everyone's experience is going to be a bit different. So this isn't by any means a complete how-to guide to do New Zealand. But I think the conversation really highlighted some of the major differences between fishing in the U.S. and fishing in New Zealand. So it should give a better idea of what to expect if you were to head over there. So without further ado, here is my chat with Melanie Moss.
Mel
I wish I had a beer right now.
Katie
You should go get a beer. This would be way better.
Mel
Yeah. at Starbucks I could just get a 12 pack
Katie
just drink them all at your table
Katie
Bud Light number seven
Mel
that would be so much better
Katie
maybe you just come to Colorado I'm already having so much fun
Mel
I know I honestly was gonna tell you like when this wasn't working very well I'm like maybe it's better that we can't see each other because we're just going to freaking laugh the whole time.
Katie
So, well, I'll let you start, I guess, because I don't even know where to start. So, okay. You just go, you go for it and then I'll ask you things from there.
Mel
Okay. Well, I guess I just wanted to talk to you first about, like, we haven't, we haven't been able to talk at all about this trip. And I know we wanted to, and I don't even think we really talked before I went. on the trip too much.
Katie
No, because I didn't know you were going to the airport. Like I like, I like texted you that day and you were heading there.
Mel
Yeah. Um, and I know, I know we had talked, you know, a lot further in the past about New Zealand and just kind of, I'm going there, I'm going to fish there and here's what I know about it, you know? Yeah. Um, but it was very brief what we talked about. And I don't think, you know, I don't even think I ever went into, you know, why did Jarrett and I pick New Zealand to go to as our, you know, celebration trip. Yeah. So finishing. What else was on the list? Um, it wasn't really, we didn't have a big list of places where we're like, okay, let's narrow this down. Here's pros and cons of going here. It was more of, you know, okay, we have to live apart for a year. Um, we need something to look forward to after I finished physician assistant school, you know, all this stuff.
Katie
How long was the gap between when you graduated and when the trip was? Like how long were you back together before you left?
Mel
I graduated August 2nd and then we left October 1st. So we had exactly two months. Two months. Two months. Okay. Yep. And the reason we had that gap, we could have gone earlier. But I remember you talking about this in one of your previous podcasts that New Zealand has a very strict trout fishing season. And so when we originally thought about New Zealand, we definitely made sure to look that up and make sure that we were there during fishing season. How long is it? How long is their season? Yeah. So most of the rivers open up October 1st. And then they go till about April, I believe it is.
Katie
Oh, okay. I didn't realize it was that long. I thought it was shorter by the way you said it.
Mel
Yeah. But, you know, if we had gone, let's say for the month of September, most everything would have been closed for fishing, what we wanted to fish. So, you know, we could have gone in September because we had that month off of work and school and all of that. But we decided, okay, well, I guess we'll book our tickets for October 1st because that's when the fishing season opens.
Katie
That's funny because I was there in June, I think. And I remember there was a lot that was closed, but there was also, it just wasn't good. Like there were a couple of places that were open, but so is it not, it's not like nationwide regulations. Like some places are open and some are closed
Mel
for the majority. Uh, it is, it is closed. Um, I think, I think maybe specific lakes might be open all year. Uh, yeah, I could fish a lake and we didn't do that. That was, it's just kind of wasn't in our, our list of things to do. okay you know we just we just more so enjoy fishing rivers and that was kind of what we were aiming for but you know I think the I think the season because their spring or their summer is our winter and vice versa so when you were there in their winter right
Katie
it was like late fall skiing hadn't started yet
Mel
yeah okay but I think because we got a little booklet when we went and got our fishing licenses at Fish and Game. And it was a really nice booklet because then we didn't have to look up. We didn't have phone service over there because we didn't get our SIM cards. And so we were very reliant on this actual physical booklet to tell us what rivers we could fish. What we didn't realize is quite a few rivers, most rivers opened October 1st, but quite a few didn't open until November 1st. So we would be talking to these locals and they'd say, oh, you know, this river is good to go to, this river is good to go to. And then we'd look it up in the book and be like, darn, it's not open until November. But that was the minority. The majority were open October 1st. So it wasn't that big of an issue. But like I said, we delayed our trip due to the fact that we wanted to mainly go over there for the purpose of fishing.
Katie
So how much did you know about that? Like how much was that involved in the planning and the choosing of New Zealand over other places?
Mel
I think we, we chose New Zealand and then we, and then we, chose our timeline based on that. So what else was in the running? Uh, nothing. There was like a list of places you were trying to like decide between. Well, here's kind of how we went about deciding on it. Um, you know, we first decided we need a trip. We need a trip. Let's make it kind of a long trip. We're both going to be jobless at the time. It's just going to be this perfect time of our lives to go do something like this. Where should we go? Well, then we started talking about what are our main activities? Because, you know, we like to ski. We like to mountain bike. We like to fly fish. But I think, you know, Jerrett just got recently got into fly fishing when he met me. And so he's really, really got that itch still. He's kind of that new, not beginner. I would say, you know, when you talked about the phases of fly fishing and a few of your other podcasts and how there's those people that they're into it, they're getting, they're getting to be really skilled, but they're still really, amped up about catching the most fish or the biggest fish or whatever it may be.
Katie
It's not just like content. It's not like you're just content being out there.
Mel
Right. Exactly. Right. But, you know, with that being said, I think that those phases are very relative because when I, New Zealand has that reputation of having huge trophy fish. And I think most people in the fly fishing world know that. Uh, so when we picked New Zealand, I think I reverted back to that phase of, I'm going to go catch the biggest fish in my life. And this is going to be amazing.
Katie
And I think we mentioned that too. It's like, if you go somewhere with certain expectations for something and then they're not met, you feel like you've lost out, even though that would have been like a great day somewhere else or like in a different situation.
Mel
Absolutely. Yeah, exactly. So I think we were both, you know, Jarrett still wants to go catch a bunch of fish, but also big fish. Um, and he's, well, he's really just amped up on fly fishing in general, which I love. Um, and so we were like, okay, I think fly fishing is the activity that we should shoot for when we plan this trip. So now let's pick where we want to go. And I don't know, I think it was because we had a couple of friends who had gone, recently and they had gone to target, you know, trout and everything. And I think that's just what sparked us to say, wouldn't New Zealand be awesome? Like we know it's scenic. You know, some people when they're planning a trip, they're like, I want beaches. I want relaxation. I want sunshine. I don't want to have to worry about anything. I'm going to sit on the beach all day. And we were like, okay, we just lived in Arizona and California. We don't really need that. The whole west is a beach yeah so but at the same time new Zealand's cool because it's got it does have beaches it does have mountains it does have skiing fly fishing mountain biking it kind of has it all so we were like you know what new Zealand sounds perfect and I hate to say it but a big factor is we haven't really gone on any international trips together and a big factor is that it's an English speaking country. Um, for sure. Him and I both are not fluent in either language, which I feel terrible about. Um, but I thought this would be a perfect trip for us to kind of, you know, travel together for a long period and, be somewhere new and, and experience this, a different culture, but not too different to where we're completely overwhelmed.
Katie
Okay. So what was the, what was like, once you decided, what could you plan before you went? Like when you were picking, you know, where you wanted to go and rivers you wanted to fish, like what resources were you using for that?
Mel
Good question. So preparation for this trip was not, was not all that it could have been. I was a PA student and Jarrett was working six or seven days a week prior to the two months that we had. And in between me graduating and then going on the trip, we had so many things going on that we really didn't sit down and say, okay, here's the map. where are we going? You know, let's read, let's read these articles on what rivers we should go to or this or that. Um, it was more so I bought him a DVD called Trout Bomb Diaries, Kiwi Camo. And I said, watch this. I don't have time right now, but I think you should watch this and tell me what we need to know about New Zealand.
Katie
Where'd you find a DVD?
Mel
I got it at Barnes and Noble and I was like, here's one of your birthday presents. And I think he said he fell asleep during it. But he did get some information out of it. He told me, okay, based on this DVD, fly fishing in New Zealand is going to be extremely rewarding. We're going to catch big fish, but it's going to be frustrating as heck. That's about what he learned. And so there was that. And then we also, as the trip got closer, you know, we would read online here and there, like about gear that we should bring or, you know, some fishing regulations about the rubber sold boots that we needed to get versus not, you know, not bringing felt boots over.
Katie
Are felt boots illegal? Or are they just like not recommended?
Mel
Yeah. So really good question. And I kind of had to research into that. And I was like, some websites were saying they're completely illegal. And some were saying they're just frowned upon. But then I went to their fish and game website. And I don't know when the FAQ section was written about that. But basically, they were saying, we don't tell people not to bring their felt-soled boots over or their gear. I think it's different. It must be different for hunting versus fishing too. Oh. Hunting different game. I'm not sure actually, but what I took away from it is that just don't bring them because you have to go through, you have to go through a biosecurity.
Katie
It's just easier not to.
Mel
Yeah, exactly. During the airport thing, which is a whole, that's a different experience in and of itself. Because when we got to Auckland, we, we were pretty short on time to get to our next connecting flight to go into Christchurch and they were like okay you got to bring all your gear through biosecurity and you have to declare all of your camping gear all of your hiking gear all of your fishing gear and you know say is it new is it used has it recently been out in the mud or you know out hiking with your hiking boots and so that was interesting because we had all our bags packed so meticulously with all of our gear and we brought a we brought a tent over in case we went back country and they said you got to bring you got to get your tent out we got to inspect it get your waiters out I actually brought new waiters over because I had a pair I had a pair from I think a year ago or more that I bought but my Patagonia ones are still working fine so I was like you know what I'm just going to keep these in case something goes awry with the other pair and it ended up being perfect because they were brand new to bring to New Zealand. So I was able to tell them at Biosecurity that I had new waders. Yeah. And my boots were also new. I got this really cheap pair on Amazon of rubber-soled boots because I was like, you know what? It's just for the month. I have my nice boots back at home. I ended up loving them. They were like $30 and super lightweight.
Katie
Well, what are they?I kind of want something.
Mel
Very lightweight. They're frogtogs. Um, try them out. Okay. And so Jerrett got some new ones too. Cause he, once again, we, we both needed rubber sole boots. We just didn't want to mess with it, whether, you know, they were to confiscate them or not.
Katie
Like there's some states you need them for, so I might as well have a pair.
Mel
Exactly. Exactly. So, he got some really nice Cabela's ones, you know, triple to quadruple the price of mine and his, came apart when we were over there and I'm like, ha ha, my frog dogs are still intact. Yeah. So, and they're super lightweight, which was really nice. Um, that's another thing about, about New Zealand fly fishing is you hike a lot. And I remember listening to your podcast with Jay Scott and he was saying, you know you'll you'll hike along and and this is kind of going off on a tangent we can talk about this later about you know what what is to be entailed with new Zealand fly fishing in general but basically yeah you hike a long time like we would hike along this river for miles
Katie
so it sounds like you're not hiking to like to it's like you're hiking to a lake that just happens to be five miles away from the nearest trail. Right. Uh, you're walking along a river. So like what stops you from fishing the river just where you start?
Mel
Yeah, that's a good, that's a really good question. Um, I'll give you a one river, an example that I'll kind of describe for you and the, and the hiking trail that's along it and kind of why, why you'll do that. So you probably know this, New Zealand fly fishing is, it's really well known for its site fishing. So the water, you know, that's one of the things you hear about. I think you hear maybe two or three different things when you hear about New Zealand fly fishing. One, the trout are huge. You're pretty much going to go over there and catch a couple fish of a lifetime. Two, the water is incredibly clear and you're going to be doing a lot of sight casting. Three, the wind is atrocious.
Katie
Really? I haven't heard that one.
Mel
You haven't?
Katie
No, I don't think so.
Mel
I'll tell you a little bit more about that, but I had days where I would throw my rod. I'd just throw my rod down and be like, I'm done with this wind. I can't even handle it. I've never casted in heavier winds
Katie
Really? I don't remember it being windy. But I also wasn't fishing much, so I could have easily just not noticed.
Mel
That is true. Yeah. That's one element when you're fly fishing that you really don't want to deal with. Yeah.
Katie
And you really notice it immediately.
Mel
Yeah. But, so we were at this river and it was, it was crystal clear. So, you know, we would ask a lot of locals and people at fly shops and things like, do you fish? Do you blind fish? They call it blind fishing, which is basically our form of fishing, right? Like not, not sight casting yeah we don't over in the states it's rare that I sight fish maybe a few places that we go in Colorado but and they're usually small
Katie
I feel like I can see them in like small creeks but I'm not spotting giant fish generally in larger rivers
Mel
right yeah so you know they said no honestly we don't fish the water unless you can see a fish because there might be only one fish per quarter to half a mile of river.
Katie
How does that even sustain itself? Is it one big fish or just one fish?
Mel
One big fish.
Katie
One big fish. Okay. So they just don't want to catch the smaller fish?
Mel
Yeah, I think so. I don't know though because you'd walk along a river and think, okay, there should be a fish in there based on my knowledge of good fishing water. And I can see into that run. but for some reason I can't see any fish and maybe I mean I don't think I was extremely good at spotting the fish I think maybe the people the locals fish over there they can see they're just really good at it they have an eye for it right because they've done it all their lives or as long as they've been fishing
Katie
so do you think there would be fish in that pool that just were too small for you to see
Mel
could have been could have been but you just like wouldn't fish them right But at the same time, you know, fishing over there, even when we were blind fishing, because we did do a fair amount of blind fishing because it was their springtime. So it was their runoff. So some of the rivers that, you know, in the summertime would be crystal clear sight fishing waters were more a little bit milky to where we could fish how we fish back home. Did you catch anything during that? that's honestly, Katie, that's where we, that's how we caught most of our fish.
Katie
So people just need to do that. Exactly. Like suck it up and blind fish.
Mel
Yeah. And I think, you know, what was interesting is we went in to talk to this, this gal at a fly shop in one of these small towns. And, you know, she seemed like a very seasoned local lady angler. she had it seemed like she had a lot of knowledge about the area she'd been doing it for a long long time and that was one of the gals that we asked you know do you only fish for the fish that you can see and she said yep I it's basically hunting I only cast a fish I can see and I don't know it just seemed it just seemed like that was the trend over there but it was interesting because we asked her this was maybe a week into our trip or so and we had been we had a frustrating days prior to talking to her. So we were kind of, you know, going into it, like feeling a little defeated when we went in to have this conversation with her. And we're like, what, what do we need to do here to succeed? And she, I loved her response because it was honestly like, do what you do best. She said, one person's setup and rig can be another person's, she called it rubbish because they call it trash rubbish over there. So she's like, one person could think that, you know, this is, this is completely rubbish setup. The other person could think this is the best thing in the world and they'll go out and they'll catch fish on it because that's what they know to do. So do what you know how to do best. And I loved that. I loved that response because I asked her, you know, do we need to be using these crazy long leaders that, you know, everyone in New Zealand says, yep, you know, 12 to 15 foot leaders better get used to casting those. She said, no, you don't need to, if you're going to be nymphing, use what you'd use at home. If you can, you know, if you know the depth of that pool that you're going to be nymphing in, your leader doesn't have to be 15 feet long. So I really liked her advice because we, you know, we were like, ah, should we use these New Zealand indicators? We bought some, they're basically wool, little tufts of wool. And they're supposed to, you know, set on the water very nicely and not spook any fish. And granted, we had a few, we had a few rivers where that would have been the way to go. We, we bought them our very first day in New Zealand and we lost them somewhere in our van until the very last day.
Katie
So no New Zealand indicators for you.
Mel
Right. So we were like, you know what, let's just go, let's just do what we do best. And we'll use the indicators we use at home and it worked. That's how we caught the most, the majority of our fish. So I would say, you know, for anyone that wants to go to New Zealand, but thinks that it's this whole new ball game, you can catch fish on streamers. If that's what you like best, you can catch fish nymphing with a little bubble indicator. If that's what you like best, or you can catch fish on dry flies.
Katie
And did you see any fish rising? Did you fish dry flies?
Mel
We did. We did. You know, it was, it was the beginning of their season and every fly shop that we went into, we would ask, you know, what's the best method to fish at this point? And they were like, nymphing, hands down nymphing. And we're like, good. Cause we're good at that. But, but we did have a couple of really cool dry fly experiences. One of them, you were at a campground and Jarrett was sleeping in the, he was napping in the van. And I was like, you know what, I'm just going to go explore this little, it was a pretty small stream near the campground, but really crystal clear waters. And I saw a fish. I walked it quite a ways before I saw a fish. But then I did see a fish take a fly off the surface. And then I saw – so then that fish actually spooked away. Because I'm – as much as you – well, this is a different part of the conversation. But the frustrations of trying to be sneaky on these fish is outrageous. But I spooked that fish away, but I saw another one way across the river, kind of just working a little run. It wasn't rising, but I was like, I wonder if I can get this fish to eat off the surface because it was a pretty shallow run. And so I stayed behind it and cast a elk hair caddis at it. And I think it was my second cast. It came up and hit it. And I was like, no way. You know when you get a fish on a dry and you have it on before you realize that it actually hit? You like are fighting the fish before you actually realize like, oh my gosh, that was crazy. It just happened so quickly.
Katie
Yeah. There's always a part of me when I set the hook too on a dry that I'm kind of expecting the fish not to still be on it when I finish setting the hook. Because like half the time, you know, the dry fly just flies right out and you got to try again. So whenever I pull it and the fish is actually there and it's still there two or three seconds later, I'm like, wow. This is a moment of shock. I went really, yeah, really smoothly.
Mel
Right. And I think, you know, in that situation, had I not hooked that fish, I don't know if I would have had another chance at it. But we did have a really awesome hatch one night. We were fishing this river. And this is another kind of interesting part of New Zealand is there's a couple rivers that are designated as fly fishing only. So you can't come and spin fish on it. It was actually really, really a special experience because there was, you know, for us, because we fly fish, we're like, cool. Nobody else but fly fishermen are allowed on this? Awesome. But yeah, I guess if you spin fish, you'd be like, what the heck? But, yeah, it was, it was a super cool experience. It was on the North Island and it was very, very secluded, very out in the middle of nowhere, beautiful scenery around. And, we had an epic day on this river and we decided to stay out there cause we weren't sure if we were going to move on and go to a new spot or stay out there for a night. Cause we had the van, which was really awesome.
Katie
Yeah, I want to hear about the van too, like separately.
Mel
Yeah. Yeah, I'll talk about that and just kind of how that gave us such freedom and flexibility with the planning while we were over there. But anyway, we decided, yeah, let's stay out here. It was such an awesome day. Let's do it again tomorrow. And there was a fishing, an angler access that also said, you know, self-contained campers are welcome to camp here. And nobody was out there. It was gorgeous, right on the river. and we had an epic hatch that night. It was amazing. I threw on, I think I could have thrown on, it was a mayfly hatch, for the most part primarily, but I think I could have thrown on pretty much any dry fly and they would have gone after it. And it was so cool because it was, you know, all the way across the river. So it really tested our casting, skills and I had to stand, we weren't sure the river was a little murky still. So we weren't sure how deep it was to to get closer to the run. Um, so, you know, we kind of had to help each other get out into the middle of the river. And then there was this one rock we can stand on and, get ourselves up above more, but it was such a rush. I can't even, I mean, you know, the rush of dry fly fishing, where you're like seeing these huge fish just roll and their backs and just, you know, there's a ton of them in there and you can throw probably, you know, any of the staple dry flies that we carry in our box and it's going to work. And I was like, yep, you know, BWO, here we go. And it, they just smashed it, but, but it was awesome. It was fun because it, just the action of it, you know, I would fish it and then Jarrett would, and, we would, we would switch off, but, It was, it was just so fun. Cause we were loud. We were, we were yelling, like hooping and hollering and you know, Oh, that one, you know, you'd have, you'd get a strike, but then you'd obviously miss it. And you know, it's like every, maybe every five strikes you'll actually, and yeah, it was just super fun,
Katie
but how many of these fish… are all the fish you’re catching, you know really huge are there some like 10 inchers thrown in there?
Mel
good question so new Zealand kind of you know when you go to a river and you know that there's just big fish and then you catch and you catch a what would be a really nice fish elsewhere
Katie
I’m picturing like Grey Reef
Mel
yes that is that's a very good example
Katie
you're like oh all the other ones were 24 inches and this one's only 18.
Mel
Yeah. Yeah. This one doesn't even deserve to get its picture taken. They were for the majority. It's interesting because we got our mindset into pounds over there because they don't talk about their fish in terms of inches. They talk about them in terms of pounds.
Katie
How do you measure that?
Mel
Honestly, I think it's a experience over time because we would ask people, we would ask locals, like we'd show them a picture of a fish that we caught and they'd say, yeah, that looks to be, oh, that's for sure about four to that's four pounds or that's five pounds. And I'm like, Hmm, I'm not sure how you know that, but
Katie
I can't even guess length from pictures.
Mel
Yeah, exactly. And unfortunately we didn't have our tape measure either. So we couldn't measure length, but yeah, the majority of fish we were catching were, were 16, 18, 20. I mean, it was, it was outrageous. Like they were, if you caught a 10 inch, 12 inch fish, which we, I probably caught maybe less than five, less than five fish that were in that size category. And when you did, you were almost shocked. And it's like, I hate, I hate the way I'm feeling about this, this beautiful fish.
Katie
Oh, I know. I have this same problem where I'm like this fish. And then I'm like, that's so mean, right. This fish isn't any worse. It's just younger.
Mel
Exactly. exactly and I'm like go grow bigger put you back and grow bigger but yeah it was New Zealand definitely I remember a friend of ours seeing one of the pictures of some of the fish we caught and he's like yeah when you come home you're getting very spoiled right now and when you come home fishing's kind of gonna suck but the fish were just they were beautiful That river that I was just describing is actually the river in New Zealand that's world-renowned for the most hard-fighting fish ever.
Katie
Oh, really? So is this all on the South Island? Because you went to the North Island too, right?
Mel
We did. We covered both islands pretty well. When we planned this trip, we had originally just planned for the South Island because we had about, the timeline of the trip was about five weeks, a little bit less. So we usually just said, okay, we've got a month over there. What can we cover in that time? And the way that we, I kind of skipped over how we went about planning which rivers to go to. Yeah. So I have, we'll go back to that. So I have a good friend who I met in Colorado. And what's fun about it is when I was guiding over there, he came out to visit. He was a friend of a friend. And I brought him fly fishing for his very first time ever out in Colorado. And now he went to New Zealand actually last year. And the majority of his time was spent fly fishing. And he absolutely just loves it. Um, so it was pretty cool because he gave me most of the advice of what rivers to go over there. That's nice. Yeah.
Katie
It's a big step up, like having a place to go, at least like the starting point.
Mel
Yeah, exactly. Cause otherwise we were like, you know what, we're going to have to get a guide maybe, the first day or couple of days that we fish so that we can a, get to know the techniques over there and be, you know, pick their brain about other places to go. And I feel like they'll, you know, be more willing if we go out on a trip with them. Right. So that was like the big debate in our heads was to get a guide or not to get a guide. Um, and we, once we got this information, so shout out to my friend Shane, if he ever listens to this, because he, basically made our trip happen for us. He wrote out probably, I think, three pages of just on Microsoft Word. He just typed up this big, long New Zealand fishing tips and places to go document for us. So it was super awesome. He started, he kind of broke it up into North Island and South Island rivers. And just his experiences, because I know he went out with a And so I'm assuming they gave him suggestions as well. So it was basically, we kind of through the grapevine got some information from guides over there. But at the same time, we had been emailing guides before our trip to kind of get, you know, prices and where do they guide and do they have openings and things like that? What, you know, what do they focus on? Because we weren't sure. We were trying to do this trip on a budget. So we just weren't sure if that's where we wanted to spend our money or if we wanted to do more DIY the whole entire time. And this document that we got from my friend, it just, it made our trip happen. It was so awesome. he, you know, not only just wrote down what rivers to try, but he would say, here's where I accessed it. This river was really difficult to wade through or wade around the bush. They call it, they don't call it brush or forest over there. They call it the bush. So, you know, the bush is really thick in this one. It's overgrown, but it's a gem of a river. You got to try it. Or, you know he'd say this river make sure you make sure you hike up quite a ways because that's where the big browns like skip the first few pools that's what gets fished the most which for the most part you know when where you park you're gonna know that those first few pools get pressured the most but but yeah so that's kind of how we went about it and then because we didn't have the use of our phones, to use maps. I actually, he also told me about this really cool app called, maps me or maps.me. And what you can do is do you, have you heard of that one, that app before? So it was, it was a lifesaver. Um, we, we got around the Island solely based on that app. Um, what you can do is you downloaded it, you download it. And then before you go somewhere, when you have, you know, wifi or service, you download a country and then you get their offline map. Um, so we had news, we had all of New Zealand and you'll zoom in and you'll see, you'll see pretty detailed, you know, you'll see a lot of details like street names. You'll see some stores if you zoom in far enough on little towns and things like that. So, and actually halfway through the trip, we realized that that app, you can actually type in a, you know, point A to B and it'll give you directions just like Google Maps would. Yeah. Offline though, which is really cool, but we didn't have that for the first half. So for the first half of the trip, cause we just didn't know, we didn't know how to use that app very well. First part of the trip, I would just, track us cause you can see the little blue dot, you know, where we're via satellite where we are. And then I would just tell Jerrett, okay, turn left here. I think we can get to the river from here. It's a public road. Yep. Let's go. So it was really a lot of information compiled between getting it from local fly shops, you know, and they would talk so fast too over there. I'm like, can we slow down and write that down? Because I did not hear any of the three names of the roads that you just told us to turn on. But, you know, for the most part, we did go based off of Shane's document that he gave us. And then I would just find the river. I'd either find it on my atlas where I could kind of lay it out and see a bigger blown up version of the country. And then I could say, okay, it's in the southwest region of the South Island. And then I could kind of zoom in on my app and find it better and find roads that we could access it on.
Katie
So how did you find out where was like private land? Because I feel like that's a big problem here.
Mel
You're right. And you said you use that app that tells you
Katie
right right
Mel
but I wasn't sure I haven't gotten into yet okay well
Katie
I don't think they have like foreign countries anyway but like right it's not an issue because you knew that like you had the recommendation of that river so like you were already familiar with the fact that you could access it or were there places that it was sketchy and you couldn't access yeah um
Mel
there was one river so this is just an example but you know in Shane's document he said this river you have to go here and it was actually one of the ones that's the fly fishing only river he was like unfortunately not a lot of access public access but there are places so you just have to search them out. Um, and we, this was actually really interesting. We went to that river and we started fishing by this bridge and you know, there, so we looked a lot of times for angler access signs and that was a big tip off for us to be like, yep, this is a public area. This is good. Um, because when you're out there, you know, it's not like, it's not like there's a lot of pull-offs like I picture when we go fly fishing in the states along a river and it's like oh there's a car and they're fishing so this is totally a public access point it's like you you're pretty much the only people out on that river which is super awesome you rarely see other people unless it's unless it's in like the Taupo region which is in the North Island and it's like a very it's a world-renowned fly fishing destination this this river called the tangarero river but other than that if you're going out into the more rural areas you're you're probably not going to see any other anglers and if you do
Katie
I was wondering about that so it sounds like it's a pretty popular place for people to travel but is it just that it's popular for people to travel to but still like in the grand scheme there's not that many people that actually are going there or is it because it was early in the season? Are there locals that are fishing it?
Mel
I think it's a combination of all those that you just said, but I think one of the main reasons was it was early season. And I think had we gone in say December, which is getting to get into their summer, it would have been a lot more pressured. We probably would have seen a lot more people. I remember coming out from our backcountry hut trip, which is the main reason we went back there was to fish this backcountry river. And we saw some people, a young couple had all their fishing gear and they were about to hike in. And they said, how many people did you see back there fishing? Because we chatted with them for a little bit. And we said, no one else was out there. And they're like, oh, good. Okay. Because that's, you know, honestly, if anyone else is fishing that river it's kind of it's kind of not worth going back there if it's really if you're going to be fishing the same yeah because you that was one of the rivers where you walk you walk like maybe a half a mile see a pool see a fish spook it away if you're Jerrett and Melanie moss and then and then have to hike to the next pool so make sure you
Katie
go ahead for like a month of just like, whoop, there goes another one. It's just like, never catch anything.
Mel
We have a phrase called, we just were like, Oh, there's another heartbreak fish basically. And we just, we know what that means with each other. We're just like heartbreak fish. And it's just like, it's just, it was an unspoken thing eventually between us where we were just like, looked at each other and we're just like, another one bites the dust. It was frustrating, but at the same time, like, you know, the, that was the best, one of the best fly fishing trips of our lives. It was, it was all the feels and so many emotions. And I'll, I'll talk a little bit more about that later, but, but I want to go back to really quick about this public access thing. So we were fishing that river and we started at this bridge and there was an angler access sign. So we started fishing and, you know, within maybe five minutes, we had hooked into two, three fish by then. So we're like, whoa, this river is fire. And we were having a blast, definitely losing so many more fish than we were netting. And that was kind of the theme of, of New Zealand. So when you do get one, yeah, it was a lot of fishing and some catching.
Katie
That's why they call it fishing.
Mel
So cliche, Katie. But yeah, so we got there and, and we were fishing and we had a fish in the net. And all of a sudden this guy came out of nowhere. I have no idea where he came from. It's this older guy and totally like this local dude that just goes around and fly fishes like the, the tweed and, and cigar type of guy or smoking guy that you were talking about in your previous podcast. Um, still keeping it alive over there. Totally. Yeah. And he, and he chatted with us and, you know, I think he was just happy to see us. Honestly, he sat on the, on the bank and just watched us catch fish. And I was kind of like, this is a little strange, but at the same time, I could tell he was that type of guy that was like, I've had my fair share of catching New Zealand fish. And I just like love watching these Americans who are all stoked up on it, catching the biggest fish of their lives, quote unquote, whereas for me, it's just, you know, whatever, another fish. Um, so, so yeah, he, he started talking to us and he goes, oh, by the way, you didn't cross over this bridge, did you? And we go, no, but we kind of wanted to, cause you know, the run, the access to this run from the other side of the river looks really good. And he goes, yeah, I wouldn't go over there. And we're like, why? He goes, the guy that owns that property right there, he's probably watching us right now. And he's known to shoot at people.
Katie
Oh, geez. Oh, that doesn't seem very New Zealand of him
Mel
No, not at all. For them. I mean, really for the most part, the, the Kiwis were very, very hospitable, very nice. Um, always stopping to ask if we were okay. Cause we were, you know, a lot of times out in the middle of nowhere, just making sure we didn't need any help because our van stuck out like a sore thumb. It was, it had a dragon on it. It's time for the van. It's time for Daryl, the daring dragon. the reason continue the reason it was daring was because it went to a lot of places that nobody else would probably go in their little tourist van but it was it was it was quite the site we rented from escape camper vans there. we both drove okay driving over there was a trip it you know when we first picked up our van in Christchurch we were in this busy city and we had to drive on the left side of the road and we had the driver's seat on the, you know, where our passenger seats are in the, in the States. And we freaked out for a hot second. It was like, you know, I think I just need to stop and collect my cool because I am, this is crazy.
Katie
I found that the seat on the wrong side of the car was like, it didn't take that long to get over that. Occasionally I turned the wipers on when I meant to do like a turn signal or something.
Mel
I still do that now that I'm in the States again.
Katie
Oh really?
Mel
Yep. Back to, You've switched.
Katie
I found that only took a couple, couple times of driving to get used to, but driving on the other side of the road was a lot more stressful because you're used to things like I can turn right on red and it's left. Correct. You know, it's the opposite. And I definitely like cut across, I cut people off over there. Cause I was like, Oh, I can do this safely. I would just like cut across traffic by accident.
Mel
Yep. And I was like, please give me the grace of being a tourist because you can tell my van is not a local van.
Katie
Or you're really local. Your family's been living there for generations.
Mel
And I just don't care anymore. I'll cut people off if I want to. Yeah. I always found myself hugging the shoulder a little bit. Cause I was like, this is just too weird. Yeah. I don't know how close I am to the center. It just feels odd. But anyway, so Daryl the Daring Dragon, he was a very trustworthy home on wheels for about a month.
Katie
But he was painted like a dragon. Like, that's why he's called Daryl Dragon.
Mel
Yeah, so Escape Camper Vans is the company we went through. And they were great. So, you know, I would recommend them if anyone wants to go over there. But there are a lot of van companies over there. We just had researched this one and thought, okay, they've got pretty good reviews. And they're kind of medium, middle road price line. So we thought, why not give it a shot? And all their vans are painted in a very unique style. And they're all different. So they have the artists come in. And one van will have, let's say, the Kiwi all over it, the local Kiwi bird all over it. Or ours had the big dragon on the side. have, one of them was like Winnie the Pooh characters. It was wild. And then you can't choose either. So you show up and you get what you get. And it's like, okay, we could either get a really cool design or one that we're like pretty embarrassed to drive around for a month, like Winnie the Pooh. I wish you had gotten Winnie the Pooh. We ended up getting Daryl. We named him Daryl. Um, but at first we were like, darn, I wish there was like a really big brown trout on the side of our van or something really cool like that. And so we get this dragon and by day, so we drove it around Christchurch and we're like, everybody's looking at us. I know it. I know it. Everybody's staring. Uh, and by day two or three, we were pretty proud to have Daryl because we could, we would see other escape vans around and we're like, Ooh, I like ours better than that one.
Katie
Also, if there's that many around, people are probably used to seeing them. So it's not nearly as weird. They're not like, oh, my God, look at that dragon.
Mel
Right. Which we didn't really realize either. But camper van life in New Zealand is huge. I remember that.
Katie
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I just remember when I was going to – and I ended up getting out of this. So this makes sense for you guys to have a van because you were driving around, sleeping in it for like a month. When I was there, it was for like nine days. And when I went to rent online before I went there, the cheapest option was a van. And I was like, I have a couple days. Like I was taking an Airbnb there. Right. I don't really need or want a van. It's just me. I've got one bag and I've got places to sleep. Like this just seems like a hassle to drive around on the wrong side of the road. Yeah. When I got to the rental place, they had an extra car and they let me take it. So I skipped out of the van. Okay. But I do remember seeing a lot of vans and that's like what they had pushed at the start when I went to rent. They were like, get this van. right everyone was driving vans
Mel
yeah because new Zealand is you know for them a lot of the majority of their economy is run off tourism. yeah so so van life van life was really cool we actually didn't really get sick of each other we didn't get sick of it
Katie
yeah that's what I was gonna ask too because I can see like I'd be like mike we need to take a break after like a week.
Mel
Yeah. Let's just go get it. I'll get my own hotel room. You get your own. Like, but you didn't get sick of each other.
Katie
It went well.
Mel
It went really, really well. Um, spring in New Zealand, the weather was very unpredictable. So we would get, you know, sometimes three to four days in a row of rain. And we're like, you know what? I'm kind of sick of van life right now. Nothing dries out. It's always damp. Um, you just, you don't have that inside space really to air things out. So that got a little, that was the only thing that got old, but I loved the flexibility of being able to say, you know, we thought we'd stay at this river for two days, but it really didn't fish the way we wanted it to this day. So let's go to this next one. Um, or Hey, let's stay here another night. This was amazing. And we want to do it again tomorrow.
Katie
That's like my favorite thing. Having that kind of flexibility on a trip. Like I love planning, but I love when you have so much time in a place that you can just like guilt-free be like, let's just stay here another night. It's so nice to not feel like you are being pulled away from somewhere you want to stay.
Mel
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that was the way, that was the way to plan that trip for sure was not planning it too much. And I think you, like when you and I go on trips together, we do, we have a very good balance of that.
Katie
Like we have places we definitely want to hit, but how we get from place to place and when we get each place is kind of left up in the air. Right. Yeah, I agree. So did you have, I assume every once in a while you did sleep in like an actual building, like to get showers and stuff.
Mel
Um, we slept in our van all but one night, which is when we went. Yeah. So the only night we didn't sleep in the van was, the backcountry hut.
Katie
All right. And that's a wrap on part one. Next week will be the second half of this episode on New Zealand and you can get that by going over to the Wild Initiative podcast and subscribing there. You'll also get all of Sam's other shows throughout the week and you can find my episodes on fishuntamed.com in addition to weekly backcountry fly fishing articles and you can find me on social media on Instagram at fishuntamed or under my name Katie Burgert on Go Wild and I will see you same time same place next week.
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