Ep 87: The Community of Fishing, with Jess Suvak
I met Jess Suvak this past summer at the Middle Creek Flyathlon and knew right away that we would get along. She does things all-out, and used a new-found obsession with fly fishing to wean herself off her obsession with trailrunning ultra-marathons. In addition to fishing and running, Jess also recently went on her first squirrel hunt and plans to go on a deer hunt this November, too! In this episode, we talk about her transition from ultra-marathoner to avid angler, how she finds purpose in the amazing community of fly fishing, and some of her recent travels around the country to fish.
Jess’s Instagram: @jessicasuvak
Ohio Women on the Fly Instagram: @ohiowomenonthefly
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Katie
You're listening to the Fish Untamed Podcast, your home for fly fishing the backcountry. This is episode 87 with Jess Suvak on the community of fishing. I usually just start with getting a background of like how my guests got into fly fishing and I know we're going to talk about some things that aren't super fly fishing related too so So maybe we'll come back to that, but I just want to start with like, how did you find fly fishing?
Jess
Yeah. So I actually used to be a big trail runner before I got into fly fishing. And there was one day in, I think it was December. It was really snowy and really cold. And I was like, oh, no one's going to be outside. And then I was running down in our local, one of our local metro parks called Rocky River. And I saw a bunch of guys fly fishing and I was like, that looks beautiful. It looks amazing. How do I get into it? And how are these guys as crazy as I am to be outside in this weather, right? So I thought it was awesome and another way to get outside. So I took my first course at Orvis Westlake. And then I did, there are three courses. So they're 101, 201, and then they're 301. The 301 happened to be at a trout club. And then that's where I caught my first fish on the fly. And after that, I was just like, every day I wanted to be on the river, I wanted to learn everything. And it's just been absolutely insane now for me. So, yeah.
Katie
So what are those three different levels entail? You said you didn't catch your first fish until the 301. So does that mean that the first two levels are more like casting in a yard or more like theory or like, how did you progress? What are those different levels?
Jess
Yeah, totally correct. So the 101 is just like basically just teaching you like your basic fly fishing knowledge. A lot of it was on like a computer screen. Someone just going over like what a mend is, how to put together a rod, things of that nature, like relatively like just talking to you how to cast. And then they will actually take you outside into a field and then teach you just like the basic fly casting. And then the 201 was actually fly tying, which was really amazing. So learn how to do a few bugs just that would work for out in your local area. And then the 301 was you got to go to a trout club with two like people, employees from Orvis or like a guide. They took you around the trout club and just basically answered any questions that you had to help you catch your first fish.
Katie
I'm sure Orvis has their system down, but I'm kind of surprised that they did like a fly tying before they did a like go out and try to catch a fish class. Cause I could see some people be like pounding their fists being like, I want to catch a fish now. And if we're going to do something else, then like I'm done. And you know, I know the right for the right person that's going to draw them in even more. Um, but I'm surprised that they do that fly tying so early that, you know, I would have guessed that that's like the next level beyond the actual fishing.
Jess
Yeah, you would think, but, I think it's just because they do such a good job in that one-on-one course, getting it all together. And they actually do have really awesome, like construction or like little, like fake fish that they have out in the field. Um, that you could cast that you know but you know it is kind of hard like those stores they don't have like a pond or a river right next to them so it is kind of hard for each shop probably to get out on water and then you'll have to find like a local river or a trout club or something or a pond you know what I mean for that 301 course so I think it's just basically to get people interested in in fly fishing and then they want you to get into you know the next step of fly tying and it's just basic bugs and then it is like a little bit of I think if I remember correctly it actually costs a little bit of money to go to that trout club so it might defer like you know get people not interested in it you go to that 301 course so I think it's just to kind of get you get you going and if you're really into it you spend a little tiny bit of money to get you in that top club
Katie
yeah so they offer basically like what what they can offer for free they offer for free and then it's like if you want to pay like if you liked those first two classes then then go ahead and come to the third. That makes more sense if they had to pay to go there.
Jess
And they did an amazing job. They even give you like a little discount. Like if you take the course, you get a discount. So my first rod was just the Clearwater, Orvis Clearwater, and then a Battenkill reel, and then just a regular floating line. And yeah, I remember getting my discount and like walking out the door after my first class, just like totally like gung-ho and ready to go. So I still have that rod. And then I got a second Clearwater, And I actually gifted it to a gal friend to get her going on the water.
Katie
So, yeah. Oh, that's awesome. I love that. And I know a lot of people who still have their first fly rod and it's not even like a throwaway rod. It's not like, oh, in case one breaks, it's legitimately like something they still use all the time. And it's kind of like if, you know, if you get good enough skill, you can use a kind of, I don't want to say crappy fly rod, but you know, like your first fly rod, kind of inexpensive. You can still use it. No problem.
Jess
Oh, yeah. Heck, heck yeah. I feel like, you know, learning on, you know, for me, I just wanted to get a decent rod because I knew I was going to probably outgrow some of the other stuff that you could get, you know. But I mean, yeah, if you're a basic rod, like just getting a rod in your hand and get on the river, that's like half the battle, right? I don't care if it's like, you know, just a cheap Cabela's rod, you know what I mean? Or if you're getting like the fancy of the fanciest, like if you're on the water, I mean, hell yeah, you're getting after it and I'm for you. So no, I hear you. And like, I still rock, like the Clearwater rod is like by far one of my favorite rods. It's so like whenever I'm like, if you're getting into it, I say like, get it just because it's so freaking sturdy. It's just like, it's a great rod. And they also offer like, if you break it, I'm like clumsy as can be. I think I've broken like a million rods already in my life, but they have a really great warranty program when they just, you know, gets you back on the river pretty quick. You send in like what you need and they'll send it to you in the mail really quick. So yeah, I, like I said, still rock that, that clear water. Um, and honestly, I would use that rod for relatively anything to do. So yeah, it's a great rod.
Katie
So going back to what you said about trail running, we met at the flyathlon. So I'm, I'm sure a lot of people have, if they've listened to the podcast for a while are familiar with the flyathlon. Um, I've interviewed Andrew Todd and, we've, we've talked about it before, but is that, is that like how you found the flyathlon was through trail running or like, how did you come across it? Um, and I, I know you also said that you like, you used to be big into trail running and I don't know if you still are. So like, tell me about that too.
Jess
So yeah, I used to be like relatively like a competitive trail runner. Um, I did like quite a few ultras, like 50 Ks. Um, I got to do this really cool, project with, I2P. So impossible to possible, which was, a guy named Ray Zahab. He would basically get a group of students together and they would go do these like amazing expeditions. And mine just so happened to be in Bolivia and it was a marathon a day up in the Andes mountains. So basically like from doing that, I think the highest we got up to was like 16K and like do something crazy like that. I just like snope. I'm the type of person that gets addicted really quick to things. So started crazily running, got into 50Ks, was trying to like compete in trail running. And then, yeah, I found fly fishing. And I feel like that addiction kind of from trail running moved into fly fishing. And I still trail run quite a bit. But I use trail running more so for mental health purposes. I mean, I feel like I could go for a run and it just like clears everything out of my brain more so than like the competitiveness of it. I think my body was breaking down. I'm not built to be a runner. So my body was breaking down big time from doing, you know, 50 Ks to 25 Ks, 50 Ks almost every weekend, just like training and doing all that type of stuff. So I think that the fly fishing kind of saved me from just like aggressively keep on doing that and finding like another addiction where it also, you know, different component of mental health rate for fly fishing than there is with trail running. But yeah, so like you, I'm sure you know you're a big trail runner. Trail running, it kind of like gets all my endorphins going. So it makes me feel better. And then when you're on the river, it kind of makes you almost like a meditative state. But yeah, so I guess the question that you're asking while I'm rambling on and not making sense anymore is how did I find the flyathlon and was big time runner, but actually my friend Lindsay that I ran with. And I think she got first place in that, that in the women's division this year, or was it second? I think it was second. And, she was the one that was like, Hey, Jess, like you should come and do this with me. She signed me up and I was like, yeah, why not? Let's do it. I think it's, it's great. And then, I showed up like a few days beforehand and I got to fish some really cool places like the Gunnison in, in Colorado and then, met her at the airport and then we went to the flyathlon did that make any sense whatsoever
Katie
totally. now remind me you I think you were signed up for the long course and then like the day of you're like nah never mind and I met you in the line for the bathroom and I was looking around and I was like you know I don't think the girl who was here last year who won is here so I because I never have a fighting chance unless everyone else who's running is like not a real runner because I'm not like a very good runner and you're like yeah I was gonna run the long course I used to run ultras but I think I'm gonna switch to your course and I'm like rats you know like there goes my like easy walking fit but then some some other like amazing runner showed up and she just like crushed everybody but
Jess
oh yeah she was insanely awesome yeah I saw her like coming down the course I was like oh shit yeah yeah I was gonna do the full course this past year was a big life-changing year for me. So, a lot of things happen where, I was like all over the place. Right. So, I, very personal stuff. So I got a separation, and then I sold my house and, it was just like one thing after the other. So when I signed up for this course, none of that stuff was relative or signed up for this, trail run, none of that stuff was happening. And I was like going to train properly and do all these things. And then, you know, life happens. And I was like, I was like like still gung-ho about like I have this like you know you have this like ego or grit to you you're like I'm still gonna do it I don't care if I like you know like if I get hurt or whatever whatever I'm gonna power through it but then I got there and I was like all right like I haven't been training I'm just giving off like a week of just like fishing really hard I'm like I just want to have a good time and like have a bigger ASAP so that's why I kind of switched to that course but I'm I'm really hoping to do the full course next year. Although we had so much fun on that short course. So like, I kind of like it.
Katie
So yeah, I would like to at some point attempt the long course, but I have to become more of a runner before I do. Every year, every year I leave the flyathlon, I'm like, you know what, I'm a runner now because I don't do a ton of running. But yeah, I leave it. I'm all pumped up on it. And I'm like, I'm gonna run every day. And I picture like, you know, rocky theme as I'm like, crushing mountains. That lasts for like two or three weeks. And then I'm like oh you know I don't I don't actually care that much about doing this and then I like wait till the next flyathlon comes around
Jess
but yeah like the atmosphere and everything's amazing right yeah it is just a big party it's like a big party it's so much fun so whether you're doing like the full one or the or like the half or whatever it's just like everything about it you're like getting you're getting you know what you need out of it so for sure absolutely so you think you're gonna come back next year? Yeah, I would like to come back. I guess there was talk about one happening in Asheville as well. Oh, I heard that. Yeah. Yeah. So if that one happens, it's pretty close to me, like driving distance. So I wouldn't mind looking at that one. But I know I've talked to you about a few different courses. And I kind of just want to do, you know, one in different areas once a year. That would be amazing.
Katie
Yeah. Yeah. I really liked the Lake Fork one. And I switched because of archery season, which may transition us over to the next topic of you, picking up hunting. But I used to do that one and I really loved it because it was like fall colors and it felt a little bit more, I don't know if obscure is the word, but the Middle Creek one like formed first. So I think it was like a bigger crowd and the Lake Fork one was more like off on its own. I think it's kind of picked up steam and is now basically just as prominent as the Middle Creek. But I really liked that one just because of like the fall, the fall colors and stuff. So if you ever get a chance to do that one, I would also recommend giving that one a try.
Jess
Yeah, that would be amazing. I definitely want to look into it. And I was going to say you're a big hunter and I just feel like you have that grit to probably power through that long race. You know what I mean? I feel like a lot of it is like, you know, like your mind over anything.
Katie
Mental, yeah.
Jess
Mental for sure. And so I just feel like you would 100% just grind it out. So I think we should talk more about it and pump each other up for next year. Yeah.
Katie
I can do a lot of miles with a lot of weight, but it's so different from running. Like you'd think that it would really translate. And I find that it, you know, obviously your, you know, your cardio is, you know, improving on with either one, but there's something different. And I feel like I can, I can plug out so many miles moving at a walking pace with like a backpack that weighs as much as I do, but then I go to run and I run like half a mile and I'm exhausted. Uh, and it's, it's so like weird how, how little it transfers over. Um, but yeah, getting into hunting, You said that you went on your first, was it a first squirrel hunt this week or two ago?
Jess
Yeah, it was the first squirrel hunt. Yeah. So I've been doing a lot with Ohio backcountry hunters and anglers. And they wanted to do a few casting clinics, like beginner casting clinics. So I showed up and those guys are just phenomenal. Like the Ohio group of backcountry hunters and anglers, like they were so welcoming. They were like so pumped to have us. And they were like, Jess, like, you know, I've been kind of thinking about getting into hunting. My friend Jessica also, she is a big elk hunter out in New Mexico. And so I was like talking to her about following her on a few elk hunts. And then just like when you are in the fishing world, I feel like relatively a lot of people like hunt as well. So the idea has always been there. But it was really cool doing some of the casting clinics at the Ohio Backcountry Hunters and Anglers stuff because the guys were like, no, we're going to take you out next week. You know, so I got my apprentice license.
Katie
What does that mean?
Jess
Yeah. So basically in Ohio, I'm not sure. I'm like so new to all this. So like I'm probably not the most knowledgeable person when speaking about it. But I, so basically in Ohio, you have to take a few courses to get your hunting license or you get an apprentice license, which means that you basically just have to hunt with a licensed adult. Got it. Okay. Yeah. And so I haven't gotten my courses yet done. So Henry was like, get your apprentice license. And so I was able to follow him out there. And, and yeah, so we went on our first squirrel hunt. Um, it was really cool because he took me to an area where we actually, I just got a raft this past year, which was really cool. So it was actually, we packed up the raft and I got to row these two big old burly men. Actually they're young guys. They're the same age as me, but you know, it just sounds cooler when you say like big old burly men, but I had to row these two guys out to like the hunting spot, like at like, I don't know, I think it was like 5 45 in the morning. So we're rowing out there with all the stuff packed up and then we get there and it was great we like basically found what we wanted to be in like the dark because I think what is it like I think you know like 30 minutes before 25 minutes before the lights up you're allowed to hunt. is that…?
Katie
everywhere I've hunted yes that's been the case
Jess
so we kind of like talked a little bit he told me what I should be looking his name is henry the guy that took me out he's an amazing human being and yeah he took me out he told me about like what I should be looking for was telling me about the different trees like what the squirrels are feeding off of and he was just like so amazingly patient and calm and just answered every single question and it was great we saw zero squirrels oh no because I guess that's the thing with hunting right it's like when you go out to like hunt something you see everything else but like what you're hunting for but just being out there, I learned a ton and honestly, like safety purposes, like how to walk in the woods. Like I was just like stomping around like a mad woman and Henry was like, Hey Jess, like calm down. Like I'll teach you how to walk. So you're a little bit quieter. And I was like, Oh, Oh, Oh shit. This isn't really quiet. You know? And, how to look at like the trees. So like, I guess squirrels will actually kind of like how like deer will kind of basically scrape trees, I guess I, with their horns, but I guess squirrels will do that on the underbelly of trees. And like, I was looking for Oak trees and like, we're looking for like, you know, it was just like insanely awesome. But the coolest thing I gathered from, from Henry was like, I was like, Oh, you know, I'm so new. And he was like, Hey Jess, he was like, the cool thing about you is like, you know how to be outside. He was like, you already were able to like, you didn't complain about like the elements, Like you knew how to handle yourself out there. You're patient. You listen. And he was like, you're going to be an amazing hunter because you already know how to be out there. So just kind of the whole, like, you know, getting the animal thing, and done and well, yeah. And then yeah, the guys actually, before they went on a squirrel hunt before, the day before, and they actually got to, they each got one and it was really cool because they took me back and they kind of taught me how to prepare squirrel wings. So I'm ready for the next time I go out and get them. Yeah, they fried them up and we put like buffalo hot sauce or something on them. And like, it was just like, it was awesome. And like preparing it was like a whole thing. Cause you know, like, I feel like you definitely want to learn how to do that if you're getting into hunting and yeah, it was, it was really awesome. Like the whole thing was amazing. And I really, really can't wait to continue hunting. It's just like another way to get outside. Not only that, I, highly respect like people that can have a fridge full of meat that they, you know, got up at four o'clock in the morning for, and went out there. And, you know, it's a very, for my knowledge, it felt really spiritual, very like, amazingly, like, you know, like it just, it was absolutely like an amazing experience. And I really can't wait to get back out there. So my, My next hunt, Henry and the boys were all like, we'll take you by any time, Jess. You were great. But my next hunt is going to be in November. And I'm following a guy for a deer hunt. So just following him around, kind of learning how to be out there once again. But that will be my next hunt.
Katie
So, yeah. I love how enthusiastic you are having not seen a single squirrel. Because I feel like that is what separates someone who like sticks with it with someone who doesn't. I was actually just talking about this. We had some family in town. And they do a lot of like foraging. And so, and they wanted to learn to fish and I've taken people out to fish before and I'm always a little bit cautious because you get, I'm sure you've experienced this where someone's like, I want to fish, but they don't, they don't want it enough to like be happy if they don't catch something, you know, like they're kind of, they start to lose interest and they're like, eh, you know, I'm kind of out here for the photo opportunity or whatever. Um, but then you get people who are truly just so excited to be out there experiencing it and learning. Um, and they have a great time regardless of whether they catch anything. And I feel, and they do a lot of foraging. So they're used to not finding, you know, what they, what they went out for that it might be a bus and they still had a good time. And so I feel like with you, you know, I'm sure you've had plenty of days in the water where you don't get a single bite and you're used to that. And so when you go out hunting and you don't get anything, it's like, great, I'll come back and try again. And it just takes a lot of that, you know, repeating that over and over and over again. And eventually something clicks. So it's just like cool to see how enthusiastic you are, despite having not seen the animal, Like just learning all the stuff that goes into it. And like you said, the spiritual part of it and the connection with people like that's the stuff that keeps people coming back.
Jess
Oh, 100 percent. I think that, I mean, we've been fishing long enough where, like you said, I've had many days on the river not catching anything. And, you know, like if it was too easy, it wouldn't be that much fun when you get something good. You know what I mean? Or like you did see the the squirrel of a lifetime. Right.
Katie
So get a big like squirrel down on your wall to show off your accomplishment. What was your like favorite part? Was it the people? Was it the skills? Was it the being out in nature and being quiet? Like what drew you in?
Jess
Yeah, I think, I mean, mostly all of the above. And like I said, I've been wanting, it's like another way to get outside and any day that I'm not like, no offense to like work, but any day I'm not working, you know, and I get to be outside with really cool people and a really powerful community, like the backcountry Ohio backcountry hunters and anglers, like, or like, you know, I just feel like that's a good day. Like I'm a big, the one thing that I've learned about myself is like, I'm a really big, component of like community. And like, basically, I really liked being around people. So like, I enjoy the fishing and catching like a huge fish, like who wouldn't, but having a good time on the river, just talking and meeting people that maybe most likely I wouldn't just go up to normally, you know, like, and having these really powerful conversations with them. And I've, I've learned more, I think, in the past few years of like fishing and meeting these hunting guys and things like that, than I probably have in most of my studies in school. Um, like life, I swear to you, like, I just feel like, like just like life advice and things that I've like received from just other people's knowledge. Like, I just feel a lot more level headed, a lot more gritty. And, I don't know. I just feel like the connecting with nature and meeting people and being out in the woods with someone like you wouldn't normally go up to is just like probably the most coolest thing that you can do for yourself. Yeah. And I think that people get a little bit more calm on the water too. Right. And or hunting. Like, I just feel like they open up so much more and like I've made most of my lifelong friends now have have come from being outside so
Katie
yeah yeah and I feel like I'm sure you've experienced this too where you're at like a party or a wedding or something and you find out that someone else hunts or fishes and you have an immediate connection you're like I can talk to you like I if you're at my table I don't have to worry for the rest of the night because I know I've got someone to talk to and something to talk about whereas otherwise you're just like so what do you do for work and it just kind of like fizzles out
Jess
yeah yeah no I hear you and it's just like yeah It's like almost like this like weird little like outdoorsy, I hate to say it, like an outdoorsy cult. You're like, oh, you bitch. Where do you go? Yeah. So, no, I freaking hear you. It's like a, it's a whole thing and I'm jazzed that I found it. It literally has changed my entire life. So, yeah.
Katie
So, I know you want to talk about kind of like fly fishing community. And are you, so you mentioned the Ohio Women on the Fly. Are you the, like the leader of that group or tell me more about the group in general? and your role in it.
Jess
Yeah, for sure. So Ohio Women on the Fly was founded by a wonderful human. Her name is Katie Johnstone. So she takes care of the Columbus chapter and I take care of the Cleveland chapter here. So her and I, she was actually super into climbing when I met her and I was into trail running. And I also helped organize a group called Green Girl, which was basically what Ohio Women on the Fly was, was a community, but just for all outdoor activities. so we met at a climbing event that Katie was putting on and she had green girl at the event and her and I just connected over that and she was like I'm just getting into fly fishing and I was like me too and basically went out fishing together and we were like we should do something like we should do a community group and and get some more girls out on the water because relatively we just knew about her and I that wanted to get out fishing so we our first trip happened to be in Mohican and we basically just there was another Facebook group like it was like I can't remember the name of it but there was another Facebook group and we just basically was like hey like our names are Katie and Jess and we want to meet some like rad chicks and like come meet us out in Mohican and we actually had like three or four women show up and then we dragged some of our buddies around to this meetup. And it was awesome. And it was our first Mohican trip. And we do this every year now. And yeah, and that's basically how Ohio on the Fly was born was from just two gals that like wanted to connect more people to fishing.
Katie
So what do you guys do as a group? Is it like, you know, we're meeting up to fish on Tuesday and like anyone who wants to come shows up or do you have, do you have like regular meetups or like, how does it work?
Jess
Yeah. So we do a bunch of different stuff. So we do, we do do like our meetups. So Katie does a really good job out in Columbus where, usually in the summertime, when the weather is pretty nice, she'll do like every Tuesday for, a few months. And then same thing in Ohio, we do a fly tying zoom calls. So, Katie and I will get like materials together and we'll have like other women now that are big components to Ohio Women the Fly, like teach the tie. So we were doing that usually in the winter when things kind of slowed down. So once a month we would have a fly tying event. We'll have speakers and like presenters. So really amazing local people to people like April Vokey, who did a presentation for us last year, which was amazing. And, and yeah, we also do guided trips. So usually during, our big, Lake run rainbows or steelhead, Lake run steelhead, whatever you want to call them. No one get angry at me. Um, but when we, you know, we have big guided trips, we do pike trips, smallie trips with, Chagrin River Outfitters with Fabian fly fishing, with Steelhead Alley Outfitters and then Mad River Outfitters. So we usually use a lot of our local guys, we mainly keep a lot of the trips in just with local Ohio people but we are starting to branch out to a few of the other guides out in new York and Michigan so Schultz outfitters and then 716 fly fishing and that's Nikki sags so yep
Katie
that's awesome it sounds like it's it's like really blown up from you know just starting it to people being like we should meet more people to fish with to like all this going on that's pretty impressive
Jess
oh my gosh and you know Katie is relatively, like she's definitely the backbone. So like her and I are like yin and yang. So she's so amazingly like organized. And I'm sure you noticed like with me today, I was like, headphones and like all this stuff. But Katie's like really organized. She's amazing. She does a lot of our website design. And then I'm more so of like, I really like to get out there and I do a lot of group trips and things like that. So our yin and yang definitely works for the group. And I think that just her and I working together is what made this group so successful.
Katie
Yeah. I've seen a lot of pictures recently on Instagram of like what appears to be you traveling around and doing cool stuff. Is that all with Ohio women on the fly or have you just been doing a lot of personal traveling lately?
Jess
Oh, yeah. So I basically sold my house this past year, like I was saying, and then have just been trying to work as much as possible and then fish as much as possible. So a lot of the little bit of money that I made off of selling my house went to getting a raft and then a truck to pull the raft because my Prius, I'm sure it could have pulled it, but it was just going to be this whole thing about getting it onto the Prius. And then it has been used for trips as well. So I've always been really big into traveling and basically everywhere you go, you could fish for something. So I mean, now it's like mainly focused on fishing. And yeah, So those basically what I've been doing is just trying to fish as much as possible with the free time that I have. It's my heart and soul. And like I said, I give everything basically back to it. And so a lot of those trips have been personal. Okay. I just literally got back yesterday from New Mexico. So the gal, Jess Cantos, that I was talking about that I was going to go elk hunting with, she lives out there half the season. So half the season she's in Ohio and half the year she's in Ohio, half the year she's in New Mexico. So we got a bunch of the gals that are always fishing together to go down there and visit her. And we got to fish like the San Juan and the Rio. And then we went up north and we got to fish some really amazing small stream rivers up that way as well. So browns, rainbows, cutbows. And we were we were searching for the Rio cutthroats, but sadly we didn't we didn't get a hold of any. So, but did pretty well on everything else. Yeah.
Katie
Well, I guess you'll just have to take another trip out West then to knock that one off.
Jess
I mean, bummer, right? It's going to be absolutely horrible, but I guess I'm going to have to do it. So, yeah.
Katie
Remind me, you said, and we'll come back to this, but you said that you were going to go elk hunting with her. Remind me, like, are you no longer going?
Jess
No, no, no. So, she goes once a year and I'm going to follow her next year. So, I just, like, didn't have the time off to be able to follow her this year, which she successfully got her doe. Did I say that correctly?
Katie
Cow. Cow for elk.
Jess
Oh, cow. Cool. All right. So pretty pumped for her. But yeah, next year I'm hoping that she'll pull another tag. And if not, she has so many buddies down there that I can't wait to help, like assist it and then help like pack out and everything like that. So it should be pretty awesome. Yeah.
Katie
Cool. So tell me about some of the other trips you've taken. I feel like I saw some, like quite a few pike pictures. Did you go on a pike trip somewhere?
Jess
Yeah. So on our local streams, we do have quite a bit of pike. So I get to do a lot more local stuff, but I do get to go out of state sometimes and go pike fishing. But yeah, that's like such an amazing. So basically, we do have a really prominent warm water fishery here in Ohio, PA, Michigan. And it's pretty, I don't think a lot of people know about it. So like pike, musky, smallies. It's pretty freaking amazing here. And then, of course, we have, you know, our lake run rainbows that are stocked. But oh, my gosh, like it's it's like killer. We basically have a year round fishery here. And then we're both we're all getting into like carp fishing like everywhere else in the world. I mean, it's not getting into it's happening. And then we have sheepshead or if you want to call it something a little bit fancier, like like a freshwater drumfish. So it sounds like more fun, but oh my gosh, like if you go out to the big pond and so I live close to Lake Erie. And so big perch and walleye area for us. That's like basically all the fishing that you hear around the world is our perch and walleye. But yeah, you could go out there. I've been out there with a lot of really cool people on their boats and have been able to freshwater drumfish with Jeff Liskay and smallie fish with him. And, you know, you use like really cool weighted lines just to get like the right depth and everything to get these fish. And honestly, it's like it's so freaking cool. So the amount of different types of ways that we have fishing just in Ohio, like you could fish off the break wall like you're striper fishing. And that's for like lake run, which have lake run smallies, which is really cool. So you could fish for off the break wall like you were striper fishing for lake run smallies, for drum, for steelhead when they're starting to come in. you could go out to the lake and you're fishing for you know like catfish smallies like drum and then you could go into our river systems and you know same thing like pike musky lake run rainbows like it's just a carp like honestly the amount of fishing that we have here in Ohio is absolutely bonkers and I don't know if I want to say that because I kind of want to keep the secret, you know, and like keep it all to myself. But in a way, like I do think that, I don't think a lot of people understand how amazing the Rust Belt is and what we have here with the Great Lakes. But I did go up to Schultz Outfitters. I've gotten to fish with them quite a bit up in Michigan. And I hung out with a lot of really amazing guides up that way. And I got on quite a few of their amazing smallies, but also pike. So maybe that's what you're seeing. And for outfitters in Ohio and, and, and a few other states as well too, for, for, for Pike as well. So it's, it's amazing, amazingly awesome. So yeah, but usually that's where I'm hanging around like Michigan, Ohio, PA, New York.
Katie
That's one thing I really miss about Pennsylvania. Cause that's where I grew up was I feel like my, the river I grew up on in Pennsylvania, I probably caught just as many species out of that river as I have in the entirety of Colorado. like just from you know a couple mile long stretch of river and yeah it's one thing that I you know I love Colorado I love the diversity of things you can do out here which and you know Pennsylvania in the winter we didn't get we didn't do a lot of fishing and you didn't really do a lot of anything really and out here at least I've got like different things to do in different seasons but it's like very trout centric and yeah you can catch bass down here in like the Denver area and catch carp and stuff but it's still very very much centered on trout and I do miss that about the east coast having such like a wide variety like you have something on the end of your lining you have no idea what it is it could be anything
Jess
a hundred percent
Katie
really jealous of you there
Jess
yeah and honestly like PA you're in some world-renowned trout areas too so
Katie
yeah I wasn't I wasn't but yeah central Pennsylvania for sure yeah I regret not being big into trout fishing when I still lived there that was something that I picked up out here and so it's like ah you know I kind of want to go back and experience that but have you have you caught musky on the fly I know you mentioned musky
Jess
well holy smoky I've been on the musky bandwagon so been going out with a buddy mike from chagrin river outfitters he's been very nice about taking me out and helped me with the grind of trying to catch a musky and I've had quite a few follows and me just like messing up or messing up on my figure eight and I've had a few It eats as well where like didn't set properly. So yeah, I'm on the grind and it is like heartbreaking. And it just, it's really good though for you. You know what I mean? Like, cause you're like, man, like, do I like just suck or like, what am I doing? But no, it's just, it's a very, they're so finicky. And like, when you see these like huge fish come out and follow your fly, you're like, holy shit. And you go into panic mode. I remember he actually caught one and he was like, hey, Jess, can you net my fish? and I like literally went into full like like I didn't even know how to like net a fish like I was just like it wasn't even my fish I was just like holy crap this is amazing and so I'm on the grind I'm getting pretty close it's only a matter of time paying my dues but it's pretty cool how many I've gotten to see so far and and you know have gotten shots at so
Katie
oh yeah but yeah when it happens when it happens it's gonna be like so much sweeter imagine going out your first time and catching one and you're like, okay, checkbox done. But like now when you get one, you're going to be so excited when it happens.
Jess
Oh my God. I already told Mike, I was like, when I get this fish, I'm literally going to like either barf or like cry my eyes out. Like I'm not really sure yet. So hopefully both, you know, I would hope so. But yeah, no, I'm really stoked to get back out there and try again. Like you said, like we were just talking about, if it was too easy, what's the fun in that? So I'm happy that I've gotten, I'm kind of getting out there and doing some stuff with it. But oh my gosh, it's a riot. And yeah, like going back to like the diversity in our area. So I could drive three hours away and I could relatively fish for everything, right? From Ohio, like, you know, most warm water species and then trout wise, three hours away. And I'm in some really world-renowned trout fishing. I drive eight hours and then I could get into basically everything. So I'm in a really good place right now where three hours I'm fishing for a lot of stuff and then eight hours I'm fishing saltwater, you know? So I, you know, I think that a lot of, like you were saying, like a lot of people don't understand like just how bonkers it is kind of living in Ohio and just being able to have access to everything within three to eight hours.
Katie
Then you mentioned, you mentioned like catfish, walleye, perch, stuff like that. Do you target those on the fly as well? Because I picture, you know, walleye, at least in the lake. I used to do some river fishing for walleye and those definitely would be catchable on a fly because the river is only, you know, let's say 10 feet deep. So you can get that deep with a fly rod. But in Lake Erie, like, are you doing any walleye fishing on the fly in Lake Erie or do you have to get down like way deeper?
Jess
Yeah, you could totally target them. So when you're going out drum fishing, we're using usually like the SA cold sink 25, which is purposely supposed to get down pretty quick. Like it was like, I'm pretty, I mean, I might be mistakenly wrong, but I'm pretty sure that that technology was relatively created for our Great Lakes. Okay. It could be, I should look into that. I should probably know that. But yeah, so like you could go out drum fishing and you're using the same, relatively the same flies for freshwater drum fishing or sheephead fishing. And you could totally have a walleye at the end of it. So you can target them if you want to do.
Katie
Now you put in, it sounds like you're targeting drama and maybe occasionally catching a walleye. Do you have like a wire leader on there or do you just like catch them? You know, like I've caught pike without wire leaders before, but I know people like swear by them. Like, do you, do the, do the walleye ever cut your line?
Jess
Um, no. So we'll just have like a pretty, pretty aggressive test on there. Okay. Usually same as pike. So if you have like pretty aggressive tests on there, like it's not going to cut it, but I'm sure you can though.
Katie
Yeah.
Jess
I am like not a huge believer in the wire leader.
Katie
I know some people like swear by it. Maybe with bigger pike, I've never caught like what I would consider like a trophy pike. I've caught a lot of 18 to 25 inch pike. And I've never noticed a problem with not having a wire leader on either conventional fishing or fly fishing. So I don't know if I'm just like very lucky that I've, I happen to have hooked a lot of pike like right in the corner of the mouth. Or if, if, if some people are just getting really overblown about the wire leader.
Jess
Oh man, I've had quite a few pike like, you know, tear my, yeah. But I think it's just like I said, if you put on a pretty aggressive test, usually it's not going to happen. But yeah, I mean, like usually when I am fishing, like in the cold and stuff, I'll usually throw on like a wire leader. But summertime and stuff, I'll just usually put on like, you know, a pretty nice test and nothing really relatively happens. So I think it's just like you said, it all depends on luck and how the day. So yeah.
Katie
To be fair, I haven't targeted a lot of pike. I've caught a lot of pike incidentally fishing for like bass and stuff. So, you know, I could have, I could have broken a lot of fish off that I don't even know, you know, we're pike and I'm just like, Oh, this just snapped my line. And I'm sure you've caught way more than I have because you like target them. So you probably put yourself in way more situations where they could break your line. Whereas I've probably caught under 20 pike in my life. So, you know, the odds that they, they break off is, you know, lower. If I haven't caught as many, the odds that one's going to break off, you know, it might just not have happened.
Jess
Yeah. If you're like going pike fishing, or like smallie fishing and there's pike in that water and you're like line just magically is like cut off they got a pretty aggressive pikey I would think so unless you're like tugging on something and it snapped but if it just was like oh my line yeah probably had a bike yeah so you probably could have caught a little bit more than 20 then that was happening
Katie
that's fair so what's your favorite species to target out there like considering the diversity you've got well like if you could if you could only target one fish for the rest of your life what would it be?
Jess
i've been really liking the warm water stuff like I said like the smallie fishing is absolutely amazing like watching a smallie chase like a fly that is absolutely huge is amazing and they'll like like it's just a really amazing eat and but I really love like the toothy critters so like I said I'm the pike fishing is freaking awesome and I am just I mean like everyone I'm getting really obsessed with the whole musky musky scene so really really really enjoying that but I've been doing a lot of trout fishing though and it's like really funny because like like I said I could go three hours and fish for trout but it's like it's a it's like really funny to get me out on like trout water because I'm so aggressively like double hauling and casting these like huge flies and then you have to be like so delicate with like trout fishing right and so like you'll see me trying to like double haul like a size like 30 nymph and I'm like what the hell am I doing all I'm doing is like tangling everything up or I like look like an idiot but it's been it's like I said the warm water stuff is definitely has my heart just because I'm from the I'm from the Midwest and that's what we have here like most of our stuff is is warm water fishing and I come from a very I come from an area where like that's just you know what I had in my backyard but I don't know I I just like I truly truly just love I don't even care what I'm fishing for just get me out there put a beer in my hand get me out there and I'm really happy but I am I am also getting into more saltwater fishing so I'm really liking like the more aggressive styles of like fishing bigger fish and just like really really trying to get my my shot at like some bigger tarpon and then I've had a few shots of a permit already didn't happen for me but I'm hoping you know to get back out there soon and do that so
Katie
yep you might be a great person to ask this is a little bit off topic but we're actually planning our honeymoon right now and saltwater fly fishing is one of our activities that we're trying to like prioritize so any recommendations on a good place for a honeymoon slash a good place to do our first saltwater fly fishing trip
Jess
yeah so my first time ever targeting bonefish and tarpon was actually in Florida so key west so I got to go down there and do that and it was really amazing to go do that so that's a great place so it's like kind of like more so like in the states and then I've gotten to go to new Mexico I fished the x flats and that was actually hosted by Nikki sags with 716 fly fishing. So that was really amazing getting to experience that trip. And that was awesome. I mean, the amount of like we had a pretty hard week there, really windy, which it usually isn't. And then we had like a storm blowing in. But I mean, I still had plenty of shots at permits. If you would go on a good week, I get a feeling that you guys would just crush. And then I'm heading out to Cuba in February. So I'll have to let you know how that goes. But like I said, I'm just getting relatively into the whole saltwater stuff. Um, and it is relatively, can get expensive. So saving up for, for those trips, is a, is a huge thing, a huge thing. But if you wanted to just go somewhere and mess around, I think like the keys and going to Florida and you could kind of do like a lot of like self, you know, like walking weeds or guided, self-guided stuff in Florida. But man, Mexico was amazing. And I'm really stoked to get into Cuba and then had a lot of people telling me about Belize too.
Katie
Belize was on our list. Yeah. Cool. Well, yeah, I'm excited. What is your favorite? What's your favorite saltwater species to target?
Jess
So I love, you know, I love stalking bonefish. Like when you're on the flats and you're seeing them all swim around, like stocking bonefish is absolutely amazing. But my eyes set on catching my first permit. So I do think that when I am in Cuba, I'm going to be relatively focused on, on that. Um, and I do want to get back down to like the, the X flats in Mexico, and, and really just start targeting, catching my, my first permit.
Katie
Okay. So you're, you're focusing more, whereas I think we'll be a lot more like anything that's willing to eat. We're excited for it because we haven't, we haven't done saltwater before. So that's like anything, anything is fine for us.
Jess
And like, I say that because like, I haven't gotten a permit yet, but like, I'm the same way. Like, I just want to get down there and have fun and then drink a few margaritas after. But, but yeah, no, I have my eyes. I have a goals, you know, for, for, for a permit. And I think that that's why I'm just like permit musky. Let's do this, you know? So yeah.
Katie
This is so funny listening to you talk about like these, these like big aggressive species that you target when the only time I've seen you fish was for like four inch brook trout in that pond that you so graciously let me join you at and we're just like casting these tiny tiny fish
Jess
oh my gosh like I said it's really funny when like you get out of like pike and smallie season and then I'll go up to like PA New York and I'll do some trout fishing and like my buddies are like Jess calm down you're gonna like rip the faces off this trout and like because you're just like you're like strip setting trout and just like your whole like it's just like a total yeah brain fog. And like, sometimes, like I remember like, they're like, all you have to do is like lift up gently, Jess. You don't have to go like all crazy. And no, it's, it is really funny. Um, and, and like even I have like a lot of people I fish with and they're just like, yeah, you're just like such a warm water girl. Like, like calm down. So yeah, it's, it's pretty funny.
Katie
Yeah. I'm impressed that I didn't see any brook trout, like fly back onto the trail behind you. Cause I've definitely seen, I've seen people who don't even, they don't warm water fish. They've just like gone bass fishing once and they, you know, launch trout so far behind them. You're like, Oh God, you know, just lift up. What are you doing?
Jess
Yeah. Um, yeah. Thank goodness that didn't happen. I think that I'm at a point now where like, I'm kind of like, I get it. You know what I mean? But I still sometimes, sometimes my sets are just like out of control. So yikes. But yeah, no, I'm, I'm, I'm really enjoying, the trout fishing. I'm trying to get more into dry fly fishing, my bug knowledge and like all that type of stuff, just because I do think it is beautiful. And like, and like, it is helping me become like a more like quiet human being.
Katie
Yeah, you're like, Oh, I got into this for mental health reasons. And you're like, gah!
Jess
yeah, I know. It's just it's out of control. But yeah, there are like, it is really lovely to get out there and, and, you know, trout fish and all that sound ridiculous right now.
Katie
When you were out here, did you catch a cutthroat? Like, have you caught any kind of cutthroat?
Jess
I have caught cutthroat before. Um, but, and that was in Wyoming. So yeah, I got to go up into Wyoming and catch cutthroat. Um, so that was absolutely amazing. But when I was in Colorado, I did not catch, I did not catch any cutthroat, but, I did the grayling. That was pretty cool. got to go up into like the alpine like stock grayling thing that was pretty pretty neat and then mostly it was just browns on the gunnison's with a few rainbows mixed in
Katie
okay were you.. you don't have to give away your spot if you don't want but I'm wondering if you've caught grayling where I have was it like a true alpine lake or was it like a reservoir style like there's a reservoir style okay I think I think I know you were then would you say I said I think I know where you were I was just wondering because that's I feel like there's like two places in Colorado I know and I've only been to one of them so I was wondering if you had been to the same one I had which it sounds like you have yeah it was pretty awesome they're a lot of fun it's been kind of hit or miss when I've gone there like sometimes I catch a ton and sometimes it's a little bit slow but they're so pretty and they've got that like weird iridescence that you don't see in a lot of fish
Jess
oh my gosh it was absolutely stunning like I I've been wanting to catch one I've gotten to fish in Alaska a little bit didn't catch any grayling over there but I've been wanting to catch one for a while and then when my buddy I was fishing with in Colorado was like hey we could probably go up to an alpine lake and catch grayling I was like hell yeah we can let's do it and like you said it was just absolutely they were they were beautiful and just like looking at these fish like you're saying it's like I mean fish in general are absolutely beautiful like they all have their characters and things like that but like like you're saying like the iridescence of like the the fins and everything like that. I'm just like, Holy smokes. It's almost like they're like glowing. Like the blue speckles and things like that. I just, it was absolutely breathtaking. And then just being able to go up to like a little, like the reservoir or like the Alpine, whatever you want to call it. It was just, it was absolutely awesome. So yeah. And we were going to go cutthroat fishing after that, but we ran out of time. So I'll have to, once again, Oh dang, I'm going to have to get back out west soon. So no
Katie
I think there are, if, if you were where I thought you were, there are cutthroats in there. Um, but there aren't a lot of them. Like, I think I've caught maybe two over the time I've, I've fished it, but, there's a lot of better places to catch cutthroat for sure.
Jess
Okay. All right. Well, I'm going to have to hit you up next time I'm there then.
Katie
There's a, there's a lot of places to catch cutthroat. I wouldn't worry about it. It can, it can be, almost a guarantee if you, if you come back out. Great. I'm, I'm super stoked. I'll hit you up for sure. The last thing I want to ask you about that you, you mentioned, that kind of goes well with Grayling and kind of their, their beautiful iridescence is, photography. Are you like a big photographer, like, fishing specific or just in general?
Jess
Like, do you just really like taking photos? Yeah. So in, in general, I, I did, I did kind of help out quite a bit with like wedding photography, taking just like photos in general, some catalog stuff before. Um, and then, yeah, I mean, like, since I'm, I'm, my heart is in fly fishing now and the beauty of it and just like the community aspect of how beautiful that is. I've been getting a lot more into taking, more so like, like the fish photos and, and, and hoping to even evolve more into that. So, yeah, I mean, I've just like, I mean, I'm already like printing out photos and I'm like sending my mom, like, I was like just texting my mom today. I'm like, my family has like all their, like, you know, their beautiful photos of like everything up on the wall and I like asked my mom if I could just like hang up like a buck nasty brown that I'm holding up on like the funny wall portrait but yeah no photography for sure I'm getting more into it I'm getting really I mean I just think that what we have here in Ohio with like our women's community and things like that needs to be shared you know I think out west like it's pretty like it's it's not like a big deal being a woman out west I feel like anymore and going out fishing but I do think that even here it's still kind of like what there's like a gal out in the river and I just think that being a component of sharing really beautiful photos of what we're doing here and then just making it look really I just I don't know like I don't know what I'm doing with it and sometimes I just think same with everything else it just feels good to take photos yeah but I'm really hoping to further further either a career or something out of taking taking photos of us women and, or just being outside, fishing. Uh, so yeah.
Katie
That'd be really cool. Um, if you don't mind me asking, what do you do now for work?
Jess
So right now, full-time I work for a beer and wine distributor. Um, I've been doing it for 11 years now. Um, and then part-time I work for a fly shop called the backpacker shop out in Sheffield, Ohio. Um, and then of course, Ohio women, the fly can get pretty busy. And then I help out with a few other organizations too. Like I said, I do a lot with Cleveland Museum of Natural History Trout Club. Wow. I know it's impressive. And so just doing all these different events, I've just been go, go, go. But it's also given me a lot of opportunity to meet like really amazing humans getting out there and, you know, getting to fish places I've probably never gotten to fish before. And like I said, just making really awesome connections. But so that's what I do is I just, I give a lot of my time back to building communities. And then I work at the beer and wine distributor full-time, which pays the bills.
Katie
So yeah, you gotta, you gotta start somewhere so you can fuel the rest of everything you want to do.
Jess
I feel that for sure. Right. Right. So, I'm hoping I would really like to, you know, I've been like maybe thinking about guiding. I'm not sure I wanted to guide in Ohio. So I'd want to maybe do half the season, you know, somewhere else. And there's some places in mind that I'm thinking about. Um, and I, I wouldn't mind hopefully one day making fly fishing a career. I just like, don't know where I'm fitting in right now. If it would be like corporate guiding and, or how I can make a living off of it. Right. So, been the, that's been one of my, my biggest things right now is trying to, trying to figure that out. So.
Katie
Well, it sounds like you have your, your foot in a lot of different doors. So like, I'm sure, I'm sure something will come your way eventually if you just, you know, the biggest thing is just putting your time in and eventually something will pan out.
Jess
And also like letting go of stuff too. Like I've been doing that job for so long. And like, although like I'm seeing like a type of person that's just like, go, go, go. And like pumping myself in there. I like to have, you know, like it's, it's letting go of like, like a security blanket, you know what I mean? And kind of just like really get after it. So let's just go for it. Yeah. But like you said, there are opportunities at hand that I've been like kind of thinking about, but it is like, you know, just like being, you know, just like going for it.
Katie
Absolutely. Well, it sounds like, it sounds like you're moving in the right direction for sure.
Jess
Gosh, I hope so. I think we're all just trying to do that, right? Just trying to work in the right direction.
Katie
Hopefully and hope that it actually goes the way you think it's going to go. A hundred percent. Where can people find you if they want to follow you on Instagram? I'm sure that's a great place since you've got, you know, you're into photography, but anywhere else too, Like where can people find you?
Jess
Yeah. So I help do the Ohio women on the fly, Instagram, Facebook, and then I'm relatively just on Instagram. And then of course you could find me, I could give my, like, I mean, if people wanted to connect email wise, I mean, that's what it is, but mostly I'm relatively just on, on Instagram.
Katie
Okay. And don't mess with it. Go ahead. I was just saying, people are in the Ohio area. I'm sure they can like find Ohio women on the fly, like on social media and reach out that way if they want to, you know, get involved somehow?
Jess
Yeah. I mean, you could call Backpacker Fly Shop. I'm there. You could call or you could message us or email us at Cleveland Museum of Natural History Trout Club if that's like a chapter that you would be interested in getting involved with. And I could help you with that. So if you email them, I would be like, just say my name and I will be more than happy to reach out to you there. Ohio on the fly. You can reach out to me there or my Instagram is just Jessica Suvak. And I would love the messages and I would love to connect. So, and then on there too, like I, I mean, my email and everything like that too. So, I mean, just there's a million different ways to like, just say hello, but those are mostly the only social media aspects that I have right now.
Katie
Awesome. Well, this is a super fun conversation. Definitely let me know if you end up in Colorado anytime in the next couple of years and hopefully I'll see you at another flyathlon. Uh, if, If you choose a Colorado one, I'll be there. So just let me know.
Jess
Oh my God. Yeah. We're going to do the full together.
Katie
One day. I'll crawl it.
Jess
We will crawl it together. It'll be great. I would love to share another brook trout pond with you. Absolutely.
Katie
And I'll let you know next time we're in Ohio because I think you remember Mike is from Ohio and I'm from Pennsylvania. So we end up back there every year. So I would love to fish Ohio. I never have. So I think you're the person to show me the ropes for sure.
Jess
I would be more than happy to if not I will like start bugging you now every single time I'm like hey are you coming out are you coming out so yes please reach out
Katie
sounds good well Jess I will let you get going I know it's later for you but thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me
Jess
oh my gosh thank you this has been so much fun so I appreciate you and I hope to hear from you soon
Katie
alright guys thanks for listening don't forget to head over to the website fishuntamed.com for all episodes and show notes and also please subscribe on your favorite podcasting app. That'll get my episodes delivered straight to your phone. And also, if you have not yet, please consider going over to Apple Podcasts and leaving a rating or review. That's very helpful for me and I'd greatly appreciate it. Other than that, thank you guys again for listening and I will be back in two weeks. Bye, everybody.
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