Ep 52: Wyoming Trip Recap, with Mel Moss

My buddy Mel Moss (also featured in episodes 12 and 13) and I spent four days fishing in Wyoming at the beginning of May. In this episode, we’re recapping our trip: talking about what went well, what didn’t, what we learned, and more. Many fish were caught, and even more laughs were had. If you’re looking for valuable knowledge and insights about fly fishing, this might not be the episode for you. But, if you want to get pumped up for a summer of fishing and feel like you’re hanging out, having drinks with friends, you’re in the right place!

Instagram: @mossy_mel

• Transcript

  Katie

  You're listening to the Fish Untamed Podcast, your home for fly fishing the backcountry. this is episode 52 with Mel Moss on our recent trip to Wyoming. Just a quick message before we get started. It is that time of year again when I am getting ready to run the annual Rocky Mountain Flyathlon, which for those of you who aren't familiar and didn't listen to episode number one, the flyathlon is a triathlon style race where the events are running, fishing, and beer drinking, although beer drinking is not a competitive portion of the event. It's more of a weekend-long activity. But the whole purpose of the flyathlon is to raise money for native trout conservation here in Colorado. So as part of that, I am trying to raise $250 as my portion of the flyathlon fundraiser. So if any of you have a couple extra dollars that you would be willing to donate to cutthroat trout conservation, I would greatly appreciate it. The link to get you there is fishuntamed.com slash flyathlon dash fundraiser, or you can just find it in the menu at the top of the homepage of fishuntamed.com. So again, none of this money goes to me or the podcast. This is just to raise money for conservation of cutthroat trout. So any amount is appreciated. And if you like the show, this would be a great way for you to show your support. And now on to today's episode. I haven't been jumping in at the beginning and doing these intros much lately, but I did want to for this episode just because it's a little bit out of the box. This is just my friend Mel Moss and I recapping our recent trip to Wyoming. You may remember Mel from some earlier episodes where she recapped her trip to New Zealand for me, but this episode is extremely informal. We just had some beers together and talked about some of our favorite memories from this past trip, talked about things that went well, things that didn't, and just had fun hanging out and reminiscing. So if you're here to get some valuable knowledge and insights, this might not be the episode for you. But if you are here to get pumped up for fishing this summer and feel like you're hanging out with a couple friends around the fire, this will be a great episode for you. So without further ado, we can hop over to my conversation with Mel. All right, cheers. 

  Mel

  Cheers. 

  Katie

  I don't know if the logical start is the last trip that I took there, the horrible trip, or maybe the beginning of your trip here because you were there before I was.

  Mel

  Well, I think the logical start would be talking about yours because it will segue into the reason why you were kind of hesitant to commit to the trip. Yeah.

  Katie

  So basic summary of that trip was, it was, it was, so we've just found out from the dates because you posted that, that it was August of 2017. And so I think in my mind, August is like low water everywhere. Like nowhere has run off or anything going on in August. So it didn't even occur to me that I should check flows. Um, and Mike and I had been together a year at that point and it was his first big fishing trip. Like, I'm going to take you to one of my favorite places. You're going to catch giant fish. He probably hadn't even really caught many fish at this point. And I talked it up so much.

  Mel

  You just thought it was like easy. This is an easy way for him to catch giant fish.

  Katie

  Yeah. Yeah. I was like, his mind's going to be blown by this. 

  Mel

  You don't even have to work. 

  Katie

  Right. Oh boy, did I have to work? So yeah, we went up there. I don't remember how long we were there. Probably three days. It was probably like a long weekend. Yeah. And it was glaringly apparent when we pulled up that things were not as they should be. Because like outside the campsite, you go outside the campsite, you can see those like gravel bars and stuff. Oh, yeah. The water. And that was just all underwater. It was just like a roaring flood coming past the campsite. And I was like, I don't remember it well enough to know if this is how it was. Like, and with you, I was like, I'm pretty sure there were like rocks that went out into the river quite a bit. And we were standing on those and there was like a little lagoon-y area. And I was like, maybe I'm just remembering it wrong or the river has changed. I don't even remember if we really spent much time fishing around camp because we couldn't get into the water. It was raging so much.

  Mel

  Unbelievable. And you know what? I'm going to stop you right there. But I, for some reason in my mind, I'm thinking I forgot that it was so high and that's the reason that it was awful but I was picturing August like it was when I went with the guides and they were saying how July and August is just horrible just low super low seaweed everywhere every cast you're getting weeds

  Katie

  so it's usually horrible but for a different reason

  Mel

  right like too way too hot and low I think is what they were saying

  Katie

  that makes more sense because I remember I feel like every trip that we've done there apart from that one like all the ones that you and I’ve done have been in May or June and they’ve all been good.

  Mel

  Correct. I don't think I've ever, yeah, I, I, cause I've never had a bad experience there and, and bad is relative, right? You're out fishing, but whatever.

  Katie

  Oh, and for people who, uh, haven't read the title, this is in Wyoming. So, so driving up to Wyoming from Colorado. Um, but yeah, so the water was way too high. We went to the meadow and you know what the meadow looks like. I mean, it looks like a meadow with like a small stream that meanders through it. And there's some kind of networking sections where the river splits up and braids and things like that. It was just like, again, a raging torrent through the meadow. A lot of the grass was underwater. It was dangerous to cross. Like you had to really, really plan where you were going to cross.

  Mel

  Which is wild because the meadow, that part of the, that stretch of the river is like exactly what you said. Meandering, beautiful. You can cross anywhere. you think you might only be up to your like thighs

  Katie

  yeah like thighs are a deep spot shins is more common so that's where we spent most of our time if I remember correctly I actually feel like I tuned a lot of this trip out in my memory like I don't have a lot of memories from it I have very specific like burned in my mind images of things that happened but if you asked me if we fished the canyon I couldn't tell you I have no idea if we went in the canyon I think we did and I'll get to that later. But the meadow is where I fell in and fried everything because I hooked my one and only fish of the trip, which I hooked in the butt, if I remember correctly. Like I saw it and I was like, it's foul hooked. Great. And it got caught in the current and just it was like dead weight in the current just being dragged downstream. And I was up to my chest out in the middle of the river and I was kind of getting dragged down with it. And then I tripped over a boulder and just like went straight in, completely flooded my waders. The flask that I got you and I that like matched, we got matching flasks. Oh, yeah. That was lost. Yeah.

  Mel

  I can never use mine again.

  Katie

  I know. 

  Mel

  The match isn't out there. 

  Katie

  It's invalid.

  Mel

  Oh, no. You should have told me that earlier.

  Katie

  I thought you knew. Well, the match is out there somewhere. I hope some lucky person found it. Oh, true. I mean, if it was closed, maybe it floated. If I had already finished my drink, which seems likely based on how this trip was going, it was probably empty.

  Mel

  Oh, so some. So I forget. Did you have anything? What was etched in that again?Was it like a custom?

  Katie

  Some quote. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

  Mel

  Oh, my gosh.

  Katie

  Yeah. My phone was fried and then the fish got off. So that was a great overall summary of how that trip went. And then I think we went in the canyon only because we were parked in that lot on the rim, you know, where you hike down in. And that's where I ran over a rock and destroyed my exhaust system.

  Mel

  Oh, yes. That was why it was such an expensive trip.

  Katie

  It cost me like $3,000 if you add up all the stuff that I broke and lost.

  Mel

  To go and false hook a fish.

  Katie

  Yep. That was it. I think Ali caught like two, maybe. Those were the only fish caught on the entire trip.

  Mel

  So I'm guessing... How many people did you guys have fishing? Four.

  Katie

  Total? Four of you. Okay. Four. And so I'm not sure if we did go in the canyon, and that's why we were parked there, or if we weren't even able to. Because I'm feeling like if the water was this high, there may not have been a safe place to fish in the canyon. And I don't actually have any memories of being in there. So I'm wondering if we pulled up, looked over the edge, said, no, we can't be here. And then I drove over a rock and that was it.

  Mel

  Hashtag worth it.

  Katie

  Yep. So in summary, that's why I was hesitant to go back because I was like, this is a traumatic experience. I remember Mike saying something like, I don't know if fishing trips are really my thing. And I was like, oh, no. 

  Mel

  way to go Katie 

  Katie

  so luckily he was willing to give it a second chance and actually the texts you sent me because you got there first were really helpful it was really nice because I was afraid you were gonna be like oh you know it's just really slow and awful yeah so you sent those pictures

  Mel

  Mike would be like turn this truck around 

  Katie

  right so I showed him the pictures and I was like look she says it's good it's good yeah oh well like I said I've never knock on wood I have never had a poor experience but I think it's time of year for sure and always check flows I guess

  Katie

  oh I mean I checked him before this trip and the the hard thing was and I don't know if maybe this is just my problem and other people don't get struggle with this but like CFS isn't a like an exact well no it's an exact measurement, but it doesn't tell you anything unless you know the size of the river you're talking about. Exactly. So I see a measurement and I'm like, I don't have a concept of whether this is high or low. Like 300 on one river might be like almost running dry and 300 on another river could be a hundred year floods stage. And so I feel like you have to kind of mark down what your river is normally at or those measurements don't mean much. And so I remember when I looked up this time, the reason I wanted to know when I was there that I wanted to look up the flows from that trip so I could compare what I'm looking at now to that trip. And I couldn't find the dates because, again, I have no photos from that trip because my phone fried. So I couldn't know where I went. 

  Mel

  Well, now you can go look.

  Katie

  I know.

  Mel

  Can you do the research after this and let me know?

  Katie

  If they still have the data, I'll look it up. I want to say that the canyon was at between 200 and 300. Maybe more. And the average or the normal level that we like is 75.

  Mel

  Right. This time it was 72.

  Katie

  Okay. Yeah. I think I remember after that trip, I looked at what it had been back when it was low, low previously. And it was like seven in the seventies. So I think they probably monitor that as their like standard. I don't remember what the main stretch was. I think it was at like 2,500 when we were there before. And I think this time it was like 500. So it was like multiple times what it was this time.

  Mel

  Right. Well, and I called the fly shop that we were doing our guide trip through before I went out there this time. And I kind of wanted to get an idea of how certain sections of the river were fishing. And, you know, the lady that helped me out said, it's fishing well, it's very wadable right now. And I remember looking at a certain section thinking, it says it's like almost 2000 CFS. yes what so what is it what is it when it's not wadable in that section you know

  Katie

  oh yeah yeah yeah yeah and that's just weird because it even within this is all the same river different sections of the same river right it just changes so much based on like what damn it's coming out of. I actually requested so I have a couple apps that show flows for like my local rivers so I can check them and I have not yet found an app that does this and I actually sent in a request to one that said they would work on it and then I never heard back from them but I want to be able to put notes in a river like if so most of these apps you can save your favorite rivers and and view the CFS and I'm like I want to be able to mark on the app what I liked it at so if I go fish it I'm like that was awesome I can go to that app open up my river and be like mark today as a good day so when I have seen the flows it says it relative to what I like it at and they were like oh yeah that makes sense but I never heard back from them so I like want this app to be made

  Mel

  that's a great idea that's a great idea I have a it's like the electronic version of my fly fishing log that I always try to write, I still do that. I do I still need to log a couple from last year so I'm trying to react my brain what were they getting on I know it asks the why I was using and the weather condition and who I can remember who I was with. But one thing it doesn't ask, which I think is, would be a helpful section is the river flow.

  Katie

  So I do that. I have an electronic log that I use for myself where I just, I put like what was working and I do look up the weather in the CFS and mark them all down. And I just look at historic weather to remember it. If I don't do it while I'm there, I just look back. AccuWeather, if you type in the nearest town, AccuWeather would tell you what the high and low temperature was every day. And I can usually remember what the like sunny or rainy or whatever.

  Mel

  Sure. Oh, sweet. Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah, I have two trips that I need to log from last year before I write about our Wyoming trip. So they're really stacking up because we're also going fishing this weekend.

  Katie

  Oh, no, four trips. So where were those two trips? Were they like big ones or are these just like day trips?

  Mel

  It was like one night, overnights to some of our favorite spots. So, one here in North Idaho where we camped just for the night. And so we fished two days, I would assume. And then the other one was, Montana, West Yellowstone. Yeah. But that one, that one was in November. So I have a little bit better. I mean, this other one was almost a year ago.

  Katie

  So I'm sure you remember exactly what size fly you were using.

  Mel

  Exactly. I know. I must have been in the 2020 club.

  Katie

  So why don't you, so I wasn't with you for the first, were you there for two days before we showed up?

  Mel

  So Jerrett and I ended up pulling in on Wednesday evening and you guys came on Friday. So we basically had two full days of fishing without you. And then we met you back at camp.

  Katie

  Yeah. So what, I mean, I know where you guys went, but like, tell me what happened on those days. Cause I just got like some pictures being like, it was good.

  Mel

  Okay. Well, it should have said it was unbelievably phenomenal, exceptional, outstanding fishing is what it really should have said. It probably said something closer to that. Get your hopes up too much in case it really.

  Katie

  And then they opened the dam that night.

  Mel

  Exactly. but now that I know that that was a big factor for Mike deciding to come I probably would have made chosen different words but he still came so that was great and I believe we decided that we all hadn't all four of us hadn't hung out at the same time since our wedding so that's been which barely counted years yeah four years so that was super fun anyways so yeah we got there Wednesday night so kind of a background on why we we set this trip up my parents who live in Minnesota they went to this river in Wyoming with me five years ago now and we went one weekend before. So it was essentially the same time of year. It was me, my parents, and a couple other family friends. And you actually came. But I think, were you only there for a night maybe?

  Katie

  It was more than a night, but I think I left early. I think I probably had to get back for work or something because I remember leaving while everyone else was still there. But I think I probably did a long weekend or at least just a regular weekend.

  Mel

  Right. And do you recall, like, what are your memories of the fishing that weekend?

  Katie

  I think it was not the best trip we've had, but it was definitely better than that terrible trip I had. But I think, I mean, I don't know how many times you and I have been there together now. I want to say maybe four. I think that trip was maybe on the worst end, but that was also a trip where there were like maybe six or seven people there. And I feel like the fishing is naturally going to be better when it's just the two of us going wherever we want to go. Versus trying to find areas that can accommodate a larger group and kind of, you know, there's a lot more time spent hanging out and talking and things like that. So I'm guessing that the fishing was maybe worse just because of the situation.

  Mel

  Right. Well, and I feel like we always try to let the people who have never been there take the runs that we know they're going to catch fish in. I don't know. Do you agree with that?

  Katie

  Luckily this time there was no shortage of good runs. Like I remember when we were first, this is kind of jumping ahead, but we were walking down the canyon the first time. It was tough being like, well, that run looks good. You know, I've been here before. Mike hasn't. But also like a lot of these runs look kind of the same. And I remember I caught a fish out of one. And I think I caught a couple fish before he landed one. And I was getting a little stressed. But once he got the hang of it, he was catching fish on a regular enough basis that I no longer was like, oh, you can take this run. I was like, we're all fighting for the same runs now because we're on an even playing field at this point.

  Mel

  I feel like that is my definition of my fishing relationship with Jerrett now. Because when I first introduced him to fly fishing, I was like, oh yeah, you go fish that run for 10 minutes while I rig up my rod. And then I'll kind of come and clean up behind you. And now it's like, heck no, We are both equally trying to get that same spot. So he's running ahead and I can never keep up. But anyway, so back to my reason why we set this trip up is because my parents and my memory of that trip five years ago was insane. Like the fishing was incredible. We were, they were at least loud. I knew of the place prior. So I was like, yeah, it definitely met expectations and what I talked it up to be. And my parents don't really fly fish much beyond being with me. So, you know, it's like when we went to Colorado, they would dabble in it with me. And then I said, you guys have to come to this place in Wyoming and fish with me. And so they did. And it just left this incredible mark on their memory of we have to go do this again. Right. And we did a float trip that trip as well. And absolutely had a blast. I mean, it was like every, pretty much every other cast you're hooking into one. And the guide would say, put your, you know, put your flies right there. And you would, and you'd get a fish. It was just incredible. So my dad said, we have to go back here. It has to be one of our trips that we replan. And we definitely want to get guides again for a day for a float because that was just such a blast. And so I was so and it just also blew my parents mind. You know, we're using size 28 flies. OK, well, I like size 20, 22 and catching these incredible fish. And I remember also I was looking back on on pictures from the previous trip. And my dad's big trophy fish that trip was a mediocre fish for this trip, which we'll get to. But so that was kind of crazy, too, because I don't know. They must have grown within five years, whatever. But it was it was pretty cool because, you know, your rock happened last time and or boulder hopping, I should say. And I'm like, Dad, you got to let it run. Let it run more. And he just loved it. I mean, we probably didn't have to fight the certain fish for 10 minutes, but we did. And we got it in that. And it was awesome. And that was one of many, of course, from last trip. But so anyways, a family trip kind of every year we try to plan something or I do with my parents as far as, you know, are we going to go camping in Arizona at the, you know, Falls or we've did, we did that one year, at Havasu Falls, or are we going to do another fishing trip? Um, because obviously now we live long distance from each other. So we, and now they're both retired so they can bring their camper trailer anywhere. Yeah. So we were trying to decide what to do for the spring, last year and we ended up deciding to come, go back to Wyoming and do this fishing trip. And so that is why we, yeah, so that's why we did that. And then I, obviously, I know you live pretty close within, what is it, four hours for you?

  Katie

  Well, it was. We lived farther up north, but now it's more like four and a half to five.

  Mel

  Oh, okay. Well, so anyway, I thought that would be really fun to invite you guys, invite, you know, Joe and Diane, if they wanted to come. And it's kind of one of those spots that a lot of people know and have been to in our crew of fishing people. And so, more the merrier, whoever wants to come can come and we'll be there. Um, and so, yeah, we got there. So now I'll transition into this trip. Um, we, so my, we drove from Idaho, which was, I think, 12 hour drive or for us. And then my parents came from Minnesota and they actually went, got to camp, I think on Monday. Um, once again, retired, they have all the time.

  Katie

  Oh, they got there before you did. I thought you kind of all arrived at this. I like, I assumed they met you in Idaho and you all came together or something.

  Mel

  Oh, nope. We met there. Um, but they didn't fish before we arrived because we were timing that five day fishing license.

  Katie

  What did they do in the meantime? I mean, there's not a ton to do there. And maybe this is a great time to bring up that lady. Cause I want to know if she was already there when they arrived. The lady who was like living at the campsite, was she there the whole time?

  Mel

  I think so. I guess I didn't ask my parents if they noticed her when they first got there, but definitely when we got there. Yeah. So do you want to do you want to quick mention her?

  Katie

  I mean, there's not much to mention. I thought she just arrived when we got there because all of her stuff was outside of the van. And I thought that she was basically stopping over, needed a place to sleep in her van. So she pulled all her, you know, stuff out, whether she was moving or whatever. And she reorganize. Yeah. Yeah. And so I thought it was like a kind of a temporary, like I'm pulling all this stuff out of my van. So I have, you know, I can reorganize or I can sleep at night and then fill it back up and keep driving or whatever. But then she was there still there like four days later. And so now I'm wondering if she had been there even before you and your parents arrived. Like, I don't, I don't know how long she'd been there.

  Mel

  She might have been pushing the 14 day limit. 

  Katie

  Probably not a big issue with that campsite, but 

  Mel

  no, it's not, you know, the nomad trend is real. Um, but yeah, they, I think my parents just kind of hiked around. Um, they went to a little state park or something around there and they're pretty low-key they just kind of tinkered around camp and they had their dog too so yeah their geriatric dog 

  Katie

  she was lively for 12 

  Mel

  yes I actually recently learned she's almost gonna turn 11 so I definitely lied to you about her age but she's still a senior 

  Katie

  she's still lively for 10 

  Mel

  yeah almost 11 so we got there what did we do that night I think we just of course caught up and cracked some beers had a fire and I believe that's the night that we saw the extraordinary in the sky, the UFOs. So it is crazy in Wyoming. Did you notice the trend of how it gets windier at night as it gets dark, whereas most places it calms down in the evening?

  Katie

  Yes. Although sometimes that happens in Colorado here too. It's very rarely windy in the morning when I wake up, but it often starts to pick up in the afternoon. But I do feel like Wyoming was more specifically night where it would be fine during the day. Although it's, I mean, it's always windy during the day there too. I mean, it's, it's rare to get it calm.

  Mel

  It's so unpredictable, but I feel like we, for some reason, every single day we were there, the wind picked up at night. And so anyway, it was, and it was really cold this first night. So we all kind of were just like, we were tired from driving and, we were about to go huddle up in the camper because yeah, we were just cold and it was super windy. And all of a sudden my dad goes, what is that? And we all looked up in the sky and I saw this perfect line of what looked like stars, kind of on the horizon vertically. And I thought, oh my gosh, it's a new constellation. 

  Katie

  That's moving. 

  Mel

  It's way too perfect. Okay. In my defense, it wasn't moving at first. And then we.

  Katie

  Oh, okay. You just saw the straight line. 

  Mel

  Correct. 

  Katie

  So you just thought it was a new constellation of like a ruler.

  Mel

  Exactly. Yeah. Very, very, very straight. And so my mom came out of the camper. We all piled out and no, no one cared that we were freezing cold anymore. We were all just like, what is going on? This is insane. And then it started moving. There was about 10 of them in a row at first. And it starts moving and coming right up over our heads. And we're like, this is wild. What is happening?

  Katie

  At what point did you think it was aliens? I feel like that had to have crossed your mind. I mean.

  Mel

  Oh, yeah. Well, and my mom always loves joking about that. I mean, maybe she's not joking, but the Bigfoot thing and the UFO. so you know yeah we were all thinking this is quite possibly some extraterrestrial activity and then so we thought okay that was crazy let's google it whatever and so we were about to go back in and I think Jerrett then said oh my gosh there's more and I kid you not they just kept coming. It was like 40 to 50 of them went over, went from the horizon up and over our heads in this perfectly straight line. And we just sat there with our mouths open, jaws dropping. It was nuts. And then that's when, I think maybe that's when we thought extraterrestrial for sure. And so my mom went in and Googled it after they had disappeared and found out it was the SpaceX Starlink satellite fleet launch. They did one of those that night, which was really cool to witness, which we thought it was cool to witness. The guy that I met in the fly shop the next day did not think it was so cool. His exact words were, I hope I never have to see anything like that again.

  Katie

  I really want to know what the motivation behind saying that was. Was he very into stargazing and he thought this was just tainting the beauty of the natural sky? Or was he terrified of aliens and he thought it was aliens? What was his motivation for being so anti that line of satellites?

  Mel

  You know, I was so thrown off by that comment that I just kind of smiled and nodded at him. And then I left.

  Katie

  You almost don't want to know more. You don't need to keep talking. Well, then you told us about that. And I remember when you told us, I was like, damn, I really wish we had been there because that sounds awesome. And then within probably, what, 15 minutes, Jerrett's like, there they are again. Yeah. They were a lot dimmer that night, though, because you kind of had to. It was a little it was still a little bit light out. You said the first time it was like pitch black out. And this was probably at, what, 845, 9 o'clock. So it was like it was night, but there was still a little bit of ambient light in the sky. So they weren't they didn't stand out as much. It was kind of like the first stars in the sky when they start to appear. They're not bright yet. That kind of look.

  Mel

  Yeah. I think he noticed them also when they were much further, like directly over our head. And so when we saw them in the kind of closer to the horizon, they were super apparent. It was just insane. It was crazy. Yeah. Yeah. So then the next day we decided, I feel like there's a lot of back and forth to with, with us as a group, my parents and Jerrett and I of, and Jerrett has never been there before either. 

  Katie

  So I didn't realize that I assumed he had 

  Mel

  no, he, from what he told me, he's never even stepped foot in Wyoming. So he was going solely based off of what I knew of the area. And so it was kind of more of a conversation between my parents and I of where should we go fish for our first day of wading? Because like you said, there's so many different areas to choose from, same rivers, different sections. So we ended up deciding on the meadow and into the canyon, I think just for easier access and not quite as far of driving.

  Katie

  That's definitely the most pleasant place to fish. Yeah. It's low, low effort.

  Mel

  Yeah. I have such good memories in that spot. It's just every time I  think of it, it's just so beautiful. And the, like I said, the fishing has been incredible. I've caught some really nice browns in the meadow as well. Um, mostly rainbows though, in this area that we're chatting about. Um, but so we got there and we started fishing the meadow and I put on the same type of flies that I had, that we'd been really successful with five years ago. Um, I wasn't sure cause I really, I have to say, I have never really looked up flows until you had that experience. And then I realized the importance of it. So again, I didn't really have a baseline either of what I was looking for, but just visualizing the area, it looked pretty similar to other times that I had been there when it was really good. I will say though, cause we started fishing on a Thursday and it was like combat fishing in the meadow. It was insane. Even if we wanted to fish the meadow, we wouldn't have been able to. So I knew Jerrett was able to run, basically run in his wading boots. I don't know how he does it, but every time I'm walking on a river with him, he's so far ahead of me. I can barely talk to him. Um, and so I'm like, Jerrett, get down there and go get us a spot. And, of course he was so excited to be there and try out the, this fishing that I'd talked up so much that he was like done. Okay. And so my parents and I are just getting ready up in the parking lot and he's down there already. So we ended up having to go way down pretty close to the mouth of the Canyon, but most people don't walk down that far, when they park where we parked. So he ended up fishing a few runs in the meadow and then continuing on Um, he didn't stay too long in, in any spot and I couldn't really talk to him and ask him how it was or ask him if he caught anything because we were so far away. So do you remember that spot now that I sent you that picture, where that big rock slab is that where the river kind of curves before it goes into the mouth of the Canyon. So that run is awesome. Um, last year or not last year, but last time I was there with my parents, it was just like, we would take turns casting into there and pulling out a fish. And so I took them down there because I saw it was open and we could see, I mean, it's a lot of sight fishing there, as you know, so you can see these huge fish. And my parents, I, I basically like rigged up one of their rods and said, okay, mom, here you go. Start fishing. Um, I'll do dads now. And then, yeah, I feel like my mom started fishing and I don't know if I can't remember if I was like, Oh, I'm maybe I need to go help her. She hasn't done this in a while. So maybe I need to go like, just help her technique a little bit. Cause she wasn't hooking into anything. And I thought, well, that's weird. Usually we should have one by now. And no, she was doing everything great. And I said, well, maybe just try to get it out a little tiny bit further or go upstream just a tiny bit nothing so then I put both my mom and dad in there and split them up kind of and neither one of them got anything so then I get my rod together and I'm like well surely I'm gonna get something it's time to clean up the mess here and then I see Jerrett waving in the canyon like he his head pops out around this boulder and I just see him waving me into there. And so I think I, I think I must've ran into there really quick. I had to cross the river, as you know, now I'm getting into there. And he said, you guys got to come in here. I already have had like four fish on or into the net. And I thought, no way, because the meadow has been sucking. 

  Katie

  Cause the cleaning crew, is it doing so well? 

  Mel

  Yeah. The So I, yeah, I told my, my dad, go, go with your, it sounds like he's having pretty good luck in there. I don't know what would have changed between this run and that one, but, one of us needs to go in there. So my mom and I stayed at this, run for a little longer that we weren't having any luck at, but, she was persistent. She actually did hook into a really nice fish. Finally. Um, I think that one got off, but, oh no, we got it in the net and then we were trying to get a photo. And I thought, Oh my gosh, this trip might not be what it was last time. So this is a very like important fish to get a photo of because it might be one of my mom's only ones. Yeah. You need evidence. Yeah. And I can't remember how it all went down, but I, you know, those fish, right? Like they're so big that how do you even handle it and get it in a good position for a photo the first time. And so most of the time it's, it is almost a three person job. One person needs to hold the net under the fish just in case it happens to flop out of the hands. And then the other person's taking a picture and then the fisherman that caught it is holding it. Well, it's just my mom and I. So I thought just put the net right under you, I guess, and just hold the fish up and I'll get the camera ready. And I was so ready with that camera and it flopped out of her hands and got away and I'm like no this could be the only one and I know she was pretty bummed out as well 

  Katie

  thankfully it was not the only one 

  Mel

  exactly exactly

  Katie

  you know it's weird how much of a difference there was between the runs up in the meadow and down in the canyon because you had told us that like just go to the canyon but when we went and this is again kind of jumping ahead but you had told us it was going to be combat fishing because it really did sound like you were just getting surrounded by people left and right. We showed up and there was one guy there from Nebraska.

  Mel

  Unbelievable.

  Katie

  And we're like, where is everybody? She said it was – and this was on a Saturday. And you had been there on a Thursday and said it was combat fishing. So we were like planning to get up really early and go down there. And we got a late start and we're just like, well, I guess we'll just deal with it when we get there. We pulled up and there was only one other car. We're like, man, I don't know what they're talking about. So we did fish our way down to the canyon. And yeah, we didn't catch anything in the meadow. I mean, we didn't spend a lot of time there. It was like two casts per hole moved down, two casts per hole moved down. But we didn't catch anything. And then, yeah, as soon as you hit the canyon, it was like as many fishes you want to pull out of a hole, it'll refill for you as you're fishing. And I just couldn't believe how distinct that was.

  Mel

  What is the change? Yeah, I didn't get it either. And I don't think it has much to do with pressure. Because those fish in the canyon receive a lot of pressure as well.

  Katie

  I wonder if it's just deeper holes. Like the meadow doesn't have those really, really deep holes in the canyon. I mean, I was still catching fish out of, you know, three or four feet of water at times. But I think those fish at least had access to deeper holes. And I wonder if that changed it. Because the location was barely different. The only thing that I can think of that was different was the fact that they had access to deeper water if they wanted it. And the meadow fish are kind of stuck in their shallower runs.

  Mel

  Maybe number of fish is also a difference from meadow to canyon. Because of the deeper, maybe they're stacked up more in there.

  Katie

  Just like holds more. Yeah, maybe the meadow runs can only hold. You know, but I feel like in the past in the meadow, it hasn't felt like there's just one fish in a run. You know, when we were there up in the horsefly hole, we would just take turns like catching a fish, sitting down, letting the other person catch a fish, sitting down, getting eaten alive by horseflies.

  Mel

  Yeah. Why is it called horsefly hole, Katie?

  Katie

  Well, it's not a secret. It's just full of horse flies.

  Mel

  Oh, man. That was that trip in June. It was hot. It was so hot.

  Katie

  I think it was probably a June trip. Yeah.

  Mel

  Yeah. But I was dying of horse fly bites. 

  Katie

  No horse flies this trip. 

  Mel

  No, it was so pleasant. And the weather was wonderful, except for the wind at times. But oh, yeah. So anyways, we had a fantastic first day. Once we all got into the canyon. And I will admit that we fished pretty much the same area the entire day.

  Katie

  So that's something that I had no idea about until we talked to you after the fact. Because in my mind, you guys just spread out throughout this canyon and just kept going in. And so when we went, and I guess maybe since we keep jumping ahead, you basically told us what to do. You're like, if you want great fishing, follow our pattern from the first day and you can't go wrong because we caught so many giant fish. So we basically followed your instructions, like got up early, went over there, got a spot and then ran to the canyon. Didn't really spend too much time in the meadow. Like I said, we took a couple casts, but that was only because no one was really there. No one was there. And the one guy who was there was fishing up toward the parking lot from down there. So I was like, we're not competing. You know, we're on opposite sides of the river. He's on his way up. We're on our way down. So we fished our way down a little bit because we had the opportunity to. But as soon as we saw people pulling into the parking lot, we just like booked it down to the canyon because you told us to. But so we walked, we tracked it on our watches. We walked a mile into the canyon. And this is not like a walk. This is a full body climbing over boulders at times like passing gear for one person. Yep. Like you can't do it without putting your stuff down. And so we made it a mile back in and that mile took us about three or four hours. And that was, I mean, that was fishing too, but a lot of it, a lot of it is not fishable. You know, there's times where you can't access the river. You're just walking. We, we worked the whole way down to where you could see the trail coming down from the, the rim. Oh yeah. Yep. And so we got back and we're like, you're right. That was amazing. Like, I'm not sure what run you guys, because before we went, you were like, oh, Jerrett was was really insistent that you show us a picture of where we should catch fish and you're like jared they know how to read water like they'll be able to find the fish and I was thinking the same thing you were I was like we don't we're gonna fish all the holes I didn't realize that he was saying send them a picture of the hole because because we posted up at it the whole day yeah so when I was like oh so how far in did you guys go you're like literally the first the first hole we all just sat at it like catching fish I was like oh we took like five casts in that hole and moved on to the next, which is, which I mean, granted you had a larger group, but that was a very, that was a very reverse reversal of our roles. Cause usually you're the one who's like covering ground. You take a couple of casts and you move on. And I'm the person who was like, I will catch a fish out of this hole if it's the last thing I do. And it's often to my detriment that I will like stay at a hole too long while you move and catch fish out of all of them. So this is kind of a reversal of our normal roles.

  Mel

  I know. I know. And I definitely think, my instincts were trying to basically get the group to move along. Um, and I thought, well, and okay, there's a couple of reasons for that. So I kind of, I did want to continue into the Canyon further. Cause I thought there's no way this is the only good spot.

  Katie

  Like that was the best spot for a group though it had that like beach beachy area it could hold all four of you and with the dog

  Mel

  with the dog the dog navigating the dog with a dog and then just I feel like it like you said it takes a long time away from from fishing by just navigating the canyon so the rest of my crew was thinking why would we leave this spot if we're having such a blast and why we're not going to leave until the fighting and they never did so

  Katie

  also I mean that that's really the only spot in the canyon where you could all fish together because farther down Mike and I were even struggling I mean someone would get a fish on and this is I mean these are the size of fish where if you get one on you really want someone there to net it for you the boulders are so hard to navigate and the fish are so big that like net duty is a full-time job 

  Mel

  yes it is 

  Katie

  and it was hard even with two people to be like, oh, we're close enough to net. You know, he'd be like, oh, I have fish on. And I'm just looking down there like, I'm not sure how I'm going to get it back there in time. So with four people, yeah, you kind of need to find it. If you find a spot that holds all four people that you can navigate easily, there's no real reason to go farther in where you're just going to get more spread out and it's going to be harder to get from person to person. So I don't blame you at all. But in my mind, you guys were like climbing on the boulders and like someone was up on the top of the canyon looking down. And like, I just thought you all spread out. and we're throughout the canyon.

  Mel

  Yeah, that's so funny. I want to go back and touch on the net duty thing because did Jerrett do his impression of how chaotic it was for us both days? Okay, so we're not just talking the first day. We're talking the two days before you got there because we all kind of just say that the second day we decided kind of like our mentality of we're not going to leave this spot. Um, we're like, why go anywhere else when we had such a blast and we, yeah, we don't get to come here often. So why wouldn't we still go to that spot, which is beautiful, has amazing fish is great for all of us to go together. Um, so we ended up going back to the same spot. We did venture into the Canyon a little further that day, but, we'll say both of the days were basically at the mouth of the Canyon and then a little beyond. Um, but Jerrett It was so funny after the, I think the first day, even he was like, you know, how ridiculous we probably looked. And like, if somebody was just viewing that from an aerial perspective and could hear us would just think, what is going on with this group of people right now? So it would be me like untangling somebody's line or rigging somebody back up. And then I'd be like, Jerrett, can you do this? I mom's got a fish on right now here. And then he's like, what do I, what am I doing here with this rod or whatever? Yeah. Yeah. And I'm running to get a net and I'm like, okay, mom's got a fish on mom's got a fish on mom. Let it run. Let it run. Let it run. Dad's got a fish on Jerrett. Go net that, go net that, put that rod down. Oh my gosh. Addie just fell on the rock. Addie's the dog. Is she okay? Uh, yeah, she's fine. Okay. Oh my gosh. It was like so chaotic. Um, but so fun. And I feel like that's why it was just like my dad put it. It was complete. Oh, what's the word he used? Well, anyways, complete chaos. Uh, and yeah, it was just a riot. And it's so special to be able to fish with my parents like that and have such a blast together doing it. Cause you don't get that everywhere you go, you know?

  Katie

  It's also rare because I feel like there, there are definitely times where you're in a group and everyone's catching fish that frequently, but they're usually small because what's When I think of places that you catch just like fish every cast, it's usually like high mountain stream. You're catching 10 inch brook trout or smaller. And so it's not really chaotic. It's just when you all get together again after, you know, an hour fishing, you're like, oh, yeah, I caught 10. I caught 12. 

  Mel

  Right. Because you're netting your own fish. 

  Katie

  Right. It's not chaotic. It's just busy. You know, you've got a lot going on. And this was a different situation because the fish really do require multiple people. And I was getting sick of netting to the point where Mike would say he has a fish on and I'd let my drift finish out and I would get a fish on. I'm like, oh good, I don't have to run a net because now I'm no longer obligated to help him net because I also have a fish on. So it's just, let's see who can get their fish to their own net first and then they can be on net duty. But there were times where I was like, please don't hook a fish right now because I'm busy. You know, I've got a tangle or something. I just want to get this, you know, undone and start fishing again and I really don't want to have to run down there with a net and it was always really nice too when he'd be like oh it's a you know it's not that big and not that big it's like 16 or 17 inches like not that big I can handle it and I'm like oh thank god I don't want to have to go down there

  Mel

  well same same type of thing when Jerrett first started catching fish there because he had never been there and I wanted him to have to have this great experience I would like drop everything immediately run to him get my net ready be like what rock do you think I should stand on which what's best for you here and then slowly over time the urgency just started dissipating and I was like

  Katie

  absolutely yeah he's fine we've gotten enough fish photos so we're good yeah we had the exact same experience so like I said when we when we got down in there I I landed one pretty early on it was it was slow at first so I guess let's move into because your second day was basically like a carbon copy of your first day it sounds like just amazing fishing so now we're on to day three where we you guys are now floating which we can come back to but now mike and I are following your instructions and it was so what we what we had going for us in the lack of crowds we didn't have going for us in the fishing early on like from we probably got there at eight or so and up until about 10:30 it was pretty slow like I said we fished the meadow it wasn't that it wasn't good at all we got to the canyon and I could see them in there and I was like oh my god there's so many and they're so huge but they just didn't want anything and I finally landed one and I think I landed another one not long after that but then it was kind of dead again like it just was the fish were huge but it was kind of slow so right again this is one of those things where if this happened on any average day in Colorado, I'd still be thrilled. But because you guys had said that it was like nonstop, I was like, huh? Yeah. It's a little bit slow. I wonder what's different today.

  Mel

  Yeah. 

  Katie

  Or what am I doing differently?
  

  Mel

  Yeah. Yeah.

  Katie

  I'm catching a fish every 30 or 45 minutes, not what sounded like every 10 minutes. But then it started to pick up around 11 to 1130. And I had maybe landed like four at this point. And Mike had not, he, I think maybe he had hooked one and I was starting to get stressed. And I was like, I'm not I don't want to fish anymore until you land one because I'm gonna feel really bad if I come back and I'm like oh yeah Mel it was as good as you said Mike didn't catch anything though so so I was like I'm gonna be a terrible person if Mike doesn't catch a fish so he would have left you there 

  Mel

  he would have just gone back to Colorado 

  Katie

  I know well I was like he can't have a bad second trip here like he has to catch a fish so when he did finally hook one I like threw all my stuff and like got out in the water and I was play by play telling him exactly what to do I was like turn your rod to the right reel in let it run turn your rod to the left like steer it this way steer it around this rock it's a it's coming close to a rock so steer it away over this way I was just like barking orders at him being like you have to get this fish in or or else so he finally got that into the net and then I had this like wave of relief wash over me and then he was like I think this is the biggest trout I've ever caught and I was like hallelujah because now I know even if you only catch this one fish and I catch 10 it's your biggest fish so it's still gonna be like super thrilling for you

  Mel

  yeah that's a big memory

  Katie

  but I think I think once he did that it like broke the seal and then suddenly it wasn't I mean the next time I went with you guys I feel like he was fully competent like he was just catching catching fish right as frequently as anybody else but for that first day he was still kind of warming up but I didn't have that pressure anymore and I was like okay I mean you're not catching a ton but you are catching some and they're all huge so the pressure's off you're having a good time but I was still netting pretty intently and by the next day when we went with all of us together when he had a fish on I was like all right well have fun netting it

  Mel

  like yeah I got my eyes on my dry fly over here sorry

  Katie

  yeah and like you said there comes a point where you don't need any more pictures I mean the trout kind of all look the same they're all massive but I mean it's I mean I hate to say it but you can only catch so many 20 inch rainbows before you're like these all look the same and taking more photos doesn't do anything

  Mel

  yeah it's true it is for sure we definitely wanted to grab some pics of the ones that are like the super dark color 

  Katie

  yeah or have like a hook jaw or 

  Mel

  yeah something unique about them but if it's just your I don't want to say standard because once again these fish are huge but you're kind of like silvery rainbow it's like okay if this one flops out of my hands no biggie I actually I looked back on our photos and because we compiled my mom's and my dad's and mine Jerrett always left his in the car because the first day he got it wet and he's like I'm not risking it. Um, cause he always, cause he always floods his waiters, but yeah. And I couldn't believe it. I was like, man, I caught a ton of fish this trip, but this is one of those trips. I only have maybe three really good pictures of me with really nice fish and which is totally fine. But I was just surprised that I didn't feel that need to get a lot of pictures of myself with fish. Cause I'm like, for, for me, it was more important to get pictures of my mom and dad with their fish and, and even Jerrett, cause he had never been there, but I'm like, it's really not a big deal. Like I'm just having a blast on it. And I will sincerely say there was a point where I was like, I don't really care if I'm fishing right now. Like, I just want to watch my parents like, and their smile, the smiles on their faces. It was so cool. So, yeah, so I, but okay, let's touch on, species really quick.

  Katie

  Yes. I was about to bring that up and ask if anyone in your group caught anything other than a rainbow

  Mel

  not a thing. 

  Katie

  Well, I almost grand slammed, so I don't know what you guys are doing.

  Mel

  You're the janitor. You're like the head janitor.

  Katie

  I just, I should have just left you guys and gone off to some small stream to get a brook trout so I can get my grand slam because I know I guess we skipped the first night but when we showed up you guys were not at camp and so I was like well we're just gonna fish out of camp because historically that's been a pretty good run and it's kind of limited it's not I mean I've never walked more than maybe 100 yards up or downstream from camp but it's a great place if you're you know just sitting around

  Mel

  and you know exactly where to put your flies in there because historically it's like they're right there's one spot

  Katie

  yeah so I walk out and it's not good I mean I did what we've done in the past and maybe not good is is an excuse for myself because I just did what I would have always done there. So if that wasn't the right thing to do this time, then I was probably just messing something up, but neither Mike nor I was catching anything. Um, and, but again, you guys were just, you, you weren't there yet. So I was like, well, we're either going to fish and not catch anything, or we're going to go sit in our chairs in the campsite. So I'm not catching anything. Right. And not catching anything. So let's just, you know, keep exploring, keep changing flies or whatever. And I moved up into like the really fast, shallow water which is not my first choice of a place to go there but that's where mike started and I started lower down and then I was like well we're not doing we're not catching anything I found out mike was using a dry fly which I should have I should have monitored what he was putting on because I would not he's like I can't see it I was like well you're fishing water it's like you can't even stand up in because it's moving so fast you probably not gonna be able to see it so

  Mel

  he's like you can't see your indicator or what

  Katie

  I could barely see my indicator and he was trying to dry fly. And I was like, I was like, Oh, well, you should put something else on. But let's switch, let's switch spots with each other in case, you know, we're using different things. Maybe we'll, we'll, our luck will turn around. So he goes back to shore to take his dry fly off and put something else on. And I go up into the ripples and, you know, within five minutes of being up there, I left my indicator just dragging in the current downstream while I did something. Like, I think I was trying to maybe take some steps forward and just had my line out. And I feel like this is the theme of Wyoming. Every time I go, I feel like I catch at least three or four fish while my line is just dragging the water downstream of me while I do something. And so, yeah, I go to pull my line back up and there's a fish on it and it's a cutthroat. And I've never seen a cutthroat in that river. I don't think I've ever caught a cutthroat in Wyoming. And so I actually don't know what kind it was.

  Mel

  I didn't know they were in there. Yeah. I thought it was just a brown and rainbow fishery

  Katie

  I did too I even wondered if it was a cut bow but I looked back at the pictures and it does not it looks very straight cutthroat you can very very clearly see the the slash and it has this the spotting of a cutthroat there's no rainbow anywhere awesome and it was a decent size it was probably 15 or 16 inches so I was shocked I should go try to find out what's what species of cutthroat they even have there 

  Mel

  yeah I'd be curious 

  Katie

  yeah so that was exciting 

  Mel

  The listeners want to know, Katie. 

  Katie

  The listeners demand the information. The listeners have already tuned out at this point. We're on like day three. They're like, these girls are crazy.

  Mel

  How many beers in are they? 

  Katie

  You know, it's probably almost time to open my second. 

  Mel

  Let me hear that amazing sound of that fresh beer cracking.

  Katie

  Oh, yeah. I should correct you. It's not a beer. It's a Kirkland hard seltzer. 

  Mel

  That looks like a seltzer. Yeah. It's got that little skinny can. 

  Katie

  But I'm actually not done with the first one. So that crack will just be, it'll be good. 

  Mel

  That was just for the audio. The audio effect. 

  Katie

  Well, I'm almost done with this one. But so yeah, I had that cut. That was the first fish I caught. Then all like mostly rainbows after that, as is the standard. But I have caught browns in the canyon before. And I caught, I think two on this trip. And both were really pretty. But as they have historically been, they're always smaller than the rainbows. I've never caught a brown that's of the same caliber as all the rainbows in there. 

  Mel

  That's a great point. 

  Katie

  Yeah, these were both probably, again, great fish, like 16 inches probably, but not the same level as the 20-plus inch rainbows that were kind of the average size. So yeah, I was doing great on the species. I don't know what you guys were doing, but I should have gone and found a brook trout for myself.

  Mel

  Oh, and all those beaver ponds out in Wyoming.

  Katie

  Oh, yeah. all the what's what cfs is this beaver pond at right now

  Mel

  I will say when I told my mom that you were catching well that you caught a cutthroat initially and then that you were catching browns in the canyon she I think was like well why aren't we like I she she kind of subtly hinted at it'd be really fun to catch a different species huh

  Katie

  so Mel if you could just like get us on some different species

  Mel

  yeah okay well let's throw a streamer on which is not my forte but you know

  Katie

  I think I could I think you actually may have been able to satisfy that desire because I could I think I could see which ones were browns because they were small and they had a slightly different color and this was sight fishing and I remember one of the browns I caught I'm pretty sure I saw it and was like that that looks like a brown you know it looks like a brown and it's smaller and that's kind of what I gathered from the previous brown and just previous trips there 

  Mel

  did you catch either of your browns on dries? 

  Katie

  no I didn't end up catching anything on a dry but oh you didn't no it was a dropper it was all on the dropper so we're kind of all just jumping around at this point doesn't really matter what order things happened in I mean we're just telling stories but yeah the trip there the day that we all went so the next day after Mike and I went down to the canyon we all went down to the king together This was our one full day to fish together.

  Mel

  Last day together. Yeah.

  Katie

  Yeah. And Mike and I went farther in just because you were kind of hanging back with your parents near the mouth because they were a little bit more limited where they could go. But you came down to visit us at one point. And I was like, hey, I switched to a dry because I've seen a handful of rises. And honestly, I've caught enough fish that if I don't catch any more fish today, it's fine. My shoulder actually was hurt for about a week after we got back.

  Mel

  Oh, you poor thing.

  Katie

  I know. I know.

  Mel

  Oh my gosh.

  Katie

  I was complaining to Mike. 

  Mel

  Did you do physical therapy or anything?

  Katie

  no I should have I should have but it was yeah I think I just like I don't know overworked my shoulder fighting the fish I'm probably also battling the wind like trying to cast that yeah heavy rig into the wind yeah but so I was like honestly my shoulder hurts my arm's tired I've caught enough fish if I don't if I don't catch another fish I'm fine and I see rises so like if I could catch one of these on a dry fly that'd be awesome so I you was catching fish after fish while I was catching nothing but I was still like I'm I'm gonna stick with it but I'm gonna put a dropper on because I don't want to turn down fish that's willing to eat but I saw enough rising that I thought maybe one would come to the surface and when you came down I had that dry dropper on and I was targeting that one fish that was right in front of me I was like I have to catch this one and you're like okay I'll hang around and like watch and that fish took my dropper like five or six times while you stood there and watched me and I was I missed all of them and I was getting so self-conscious I was like Mel thanks I have no idea what I'm doing this is just embarrassing Mike's catching fish left and right next to me while I play around with this stupid rig that's not working and I can't hook the fish on the dropper even though I was hooking them on the indicator rig then I finally decided to check my fly and it was missing the hook

  Mel

  oh my gosh I forgot about that 

  Katie

  what you thought you forgot that that's why I was missing it 

  Mel

  no you told me that later because remember my mom was fishing with a fly that didn't have a hook either and so when you came back yeah when you came back and you told me that I was like no way I actually checked my mom's fly and who knows how long she was fishing with this fly without a hook

  Katie

  well because when you get like a tangle or something you tend to see it even out of the corner of your eye when you're casting you're like oh that one didn't look right like I should check my rig and make sure that it's not like wrapped up on itself or something you've got some sort of inkling that it's not it's not sitting how it should there's nothing that alerts you to the fact that your hook just broke and I think this was a fly I got at the shop there so I wonder if your mom's was too questionable quality yeah 

  Mel

  oh my gosh and for how much they charge my gosh 

  Katie

  I was so happy when I saw that though because I was like it's not me it's

  Mel

  and you probably wanted to run right down the canyon and go Mel Mel Mel look I actually know what I'm doing

  Katie

  It actually was like my initial urge was I was like Mel has to know that it wasn't me but I need to catch this fish first so I changed the fly out caught the fish and then came up and saw you. 

  Mel

  Yeah! 

  Katie

  And you were like oh did you ever get that one? I was like I did and curiously I know why I hadn't when you were standing there.

  Mel

  Oh my gosh how many times do you think we actually fish without knowing it with a fly that doesn't have a hook?

  Katie

  Hopefully not often I mean it's a great excuse though it is yeah I didn't have a hook all day all day all day that's why I missed all this fish one thing I wanted to touch on was that so before this trip we had kind of decided that we were going to try to do a trout dinner one night and I looked at the before we went this is before we went and knew how good the fishing was but I looked at I looked at the regulations and I I was like, it's a single fish limit, 20 inches plus. Good luck, us. Like, we're going to have a hard time getting enough to eat. Turns out we could have fed, like, 30 people.

  Mel

  We could have fed the army.

  Katie

  Yeah. But when you guys came back the first day, I was like, how come you don't have a fish? Like, it sounds like you caught a bunch of really big fish. So where's our dinner? And you're like, well, we just didn't, like, really feel like keeping any. And I was, like, I was still in this mindset of maybe it's not as good as they are hyping it up to be. you know it sounds great

  Mel

  so we have to do trout dinner tonight if you caught fish today we got to do it tonight

  Katie

  yeah so I in my mind I was like why didn't you keep any and you're like well it just

  wasn't convenient and I was like well convenient I mean we're trying to have this dinner but then when mike and I were down in the canyon by ourselves I was like I totally see why they didn't bring a fish back this fish would be rotting in the sun all day while like you're not you're not gonna walk back to the car that takes probably about a half hour walk back even from the mouth of the canyon let alone when we were a mile in it took us four hours to walk back to the mouth and then the half hour up to the car, that fish would have fried itself in the sun on the way back.

  Mel

  And I don't know about, well, I do know about you because I know you're very similar, but we don't often keep fish. And so this is one of those instances where it's kind of a tradition to cook a fish over the fire in Wyoming whenever we do a trip there. And so I also had a little bit of hesitancy, even walking a fish next to a bunch of people walking back to the car.

  Katie

  I was thinking that too. I don't want to walk past with a massive fish and have people be like giving me a side eye or whatever. Not happy that I'm bringing one back. And my response in my mind would have been, there's not a shortage of these. Like trust me. But the people who would have seen you would be the people in the meadow. And for them, it would feel like... Who aren't catching anything? Yes. And we did actually pass someone in the meadow on the way out who was like, oh, how was it down there? And we're like, oh, you know, it was pretty amazing. And I was like, how is it going up here? And he's like, it's been hit or miss all day. And I'm like, oh, well, 

  Mel

  that's more like miss. 

  Katie

  So, so yeah, I mean, I wouldn't have been wanting to have a giant trout hanging down at my side, walking past these people who in their mind, it's, it's, there's not enough fish to take. You know, you shouldn't be keeping them there.

  Mel

  That’s the one fish that they're going to go catch. Yeah. Yeah.

  Katie

  So, I mean, it turned out that it was not, it was, the bag limits were unexpectedly lenient for that area. So in our mind, we were like, well, let's go up to below the dam because the bag limits changed up there to three trout per person per day and only one of them could be over 16. So we're like, okay, the first one you catch will always be legal because it could be either over or under 16. And I guess we had fished there before a couple of years ago. And I remember catching fish, but I don't remember much about how big they were. I just remember that there were some fish. And so when I read that the bag limits were such that you can keep three and only one can be over 16, in my mind, they were going to be smaller up there because I was like, well, if they're also that plentiful and all 18 to 20 plus, then the bag limit would kind of reflect that by being similar to the the one 20 inch fish that you can keep down in the canyon. that didn't turn out to be the case at all

  Mel

  I know a and the other thing I couldn't really remember but I kind of had a vague recollection is that there really wasn't a lot of fishable space there either 

  Katie

  and there really isn't

  Katie

  there isn't it's like two runs for a well not for a fly fisherman for a fly fisherman with a floating line and fishing the way we were There's not a lot of fishable water. If you had a different setup or preferably a spin rod. Yeah. Because then it gets really deep and slow. Like you need to be getting down deep, I feel like for some of those fish. But the way we were fishing with the same setups that we had down in the canyon, there were maybe two spots to fish that were worth it. But they had fish.

  Mel

  They definitely did. So should we talk about how we fed the family or what?

  Katie

  Sure. Yeah. So, I mean, below the dam, it's kind of a hike down in there. But once you get in, there's enough room for a handful of people. And, again, I thought we were going to be catching. Mike and I had done a scouting trip there the previous day. And we're like, oh, yeah, we caught some fish. And they were nice. Yeah. But I think the fish that we caught when we went down, all of us, were bigger.

  Mel

  Right. So we were ending our day because we had that phenomenal day in the canyon. And we were like, this is our one shot. My parents went back to camp, getting the fire ready to cook these fish that we were saying we were going to come back with. 

  Katie

  It's all on the kids' shoulders. 

  Mel

  The pressure is on. The pressure is on. Yeah.

  Katie

  They're starting the fire for the fish that they assume we're bringing home. And we're going to a new spot that they haven't been. So they're just trusting us that it's going to work out.

  Mel

  And I couldn't really remember. I was going based off of your experience there the day before, which you said you got rained out, right?

  Katie

  Yeah, we caught one fish and left, I think, because a storm was rolling in.

  Mel

  Yeah. So we didn't really know what we were getting into. And we could have definitely been overconfident for sure. But I can't remember. Oh, how did it start where we were, we started making it into like the commentary of a race? Like, oh, Katie gets over the boulder. Oh, she's in the lead. She's in the lead, folks. Oh, I feel like we had that urgency. We had that urgency. Like somebody, I want to get to that spot first because I want to catch the fish that we're going to eat.

  Katie

  Well, and everyone's limited in speed because you're scrambling over boulders the whole time. So everyone's taking kind of a different route. You know, everyone sees the route that they want to take over the rocks. And so it's kind of fun to see whose route actually went well. Because sometimes someone would get kind of like bouldered out and they couldn't go that way. So they'd have to go back. And so someone would be in the lead and then they'd get stuck. And then someone else would kind of go running past. And so, yeah, we were just like giving race commentary to get down there. And there's only like two real runs. So it's like the first two finishers are going to get to fish. And whoever's last.

  Mel

  Which was you. You were the first finisher, weren't you? Because you started fishing.

  Katie

  I started fishing. And I think you were the second finisher and ran up to the upper hole. And by the time, I think by the time Mike and Jerrett started fishing, we already had two fish and we're like, we don't need it anymore.

  Mel

  Yep. That's exactly. Cause I remember you hooked into one and I was like, sweet, keep it. We got dinner, at least one fish.

  Katie

  And this is still when we're assuming that we're like, okay, however big it is, you can keep it. So everyone keep their first fish and they'll all be legal by default. And basically depending on how big the first handful of fish are, we'll decide how many more we want to try for. And we're still thinking because the bag limit is referring to things like 16 inches that the fish are probably going to be around 16 inches.

  Mel

  Yeah, maybe like 14 to 16. Yeah.

  Katie

  Yeah. So I get a fish on. I don't really know anything about it yet. I'm just like, we'll bring it in. We'll keep it. And then everyone else start fishing too. Like everyone get their lines in the water. We need fish. And I think before I got that one, you had one on two up in the upper hole. And I think yours was like, I think we measured it at 21. And mine was, I think, a slightly smaller, probably 20. And that was it. That's all we needed.

  Mel

  We were like, sweet. The ladies feed the family. All right. We're done.

  Katie

  So we're over on shore with our Raynaud's hands. I was freezing at this point. I was so done reaching in that cold water. And we let the boys fish for a little bit. You know, got to. I know. Got to give them that. Give them something. But I was like, I'm done. You know, my hands are freezing. I'm not going to keep anything else.

  Mel

  Got what we came here for.

  Katie

  And I was still thinking at this point that, I guess I don't often keep fish that large, so I don't really know how many people they feed. But in my mind, we were going to run out of trout and then have sides and stuff. Turned out two 20-inch fish will feed six people easily. Easily. And I was like full before we could. I was forcing more because I was like, I don't want to waste it. don't want to throw it away but I like I really don't need any more so that was that was kind of a of an interesting experience because most of the fish I keep are fairly small because I usually keep or catch fairly small fish in Colorado so it's usually like oh we've kept a handful of you know 10 inch fish 

  Mel

  we had an appetizer 

  Katie

  right so I also wasn't really sure how to cook them because again I haven't had to cook a fish that large over a fire most of my fish are so small if they're cooked in a couple minutes. And I was like, I don't want to burn these, but I feel like this might take a while to actually cook through.

  Mel

  And it did, right?And I'd rather have it a little on the overdone side rather than... Trout isn't my favorite fish to eat, but you can't go wrong with having a fresh trout that was caught an hour ago.

  Katie

  Yeah, I mean, I think other fish often taste better, but a fish that you caught that you cooked over the fire tastes good just in what it is.

  Mel

  Exactly. yeah it's a real it's a that was a pretty cool experience for sure so did you want me to go into our floating day at all

  Katie

  oh yeah I think that would I mean this is kind of in the middle of the trip but I think that would be a good way to wrap up because we've covered covered most of the rest 

  Mel

  just rewind one day

  Katie

  everyone listening is very hung up on what order this all happened

  Mel

  I know no more so they're like tell me where these fish are

  Katie

  more so they're like I already know where these fish are because this isn't a particularly hidden area but yeah oh but yeah tell me about your guided trip because that was the I mean we honestly didn't do a lot of fishing together

  Mel

  no and I was bummed about that but you know I just I feel like we have to have different expectations like I love the trips when it's just you and I because we're just we're always within earshot of each other and we're just having a blast just you and I but but I'm so glad you guys and you guys had a great time and we got to hang out you know at camp at night together

  Katie

  it was still fun yeah but like I looked back I was like oh we only actually fished together one day

  Mel

  I know and even then we didn't really I came to visit you in the canyon and that was about it

  Katie

  and you left being like well she doesn't know how to fish so I guess we're not going to hang out anymore because she can’t catch this fish. But yeah the day the day that we were in the canyon, you guys went on a, on a guided trip.

  Mel

  Yeah. And we had planned that far in advance because of our experience, years ago. And so it was just kind of a done deal. We were going to do it. There was no ifs, ands, or buts about it. So I know I had asked you if you wanted to join. And, I, I definitely get your decision not to, because I even have a hard time forking know the cost for something like that

  Katie

  well honestly I would have cheap I would have if I had known Mike was coming because he didn't know until like a week before we went that he was even 

  Mel

  oh that's true 

  Katie

  so I was like I'm not paying for a boat by myself while you guys all split boats but if I had known he was coming I would have split a boat with him it wouldn't have been that bad but I mean looking back after hearing about your trip I'm really really really glad that we went in the canyon

  Mel

  that day.

  Mel

  I am too. I'm glad that you guys did. And cause you only had two full days of fishing, right?

  Katie

  Two full days. And then the last day was supposed to be a half day and we didn't really fish because the weather was awful. And the first day, I mean, we fished by camp. I caught that one, one fish. 

  Mel

  Oh, that's right. 

  Katie

  So it was like two and a half days, but yeah, two, two full days.

  Mel

  Yeah. So, we went through the same guide service that we had gone through in the past and, they're great people, great couple that owns it. Really good guides. We, I tried to request the guides that we had before, but both of them had moved on and weren't working for this place anymore. So we, you know, the lady ended up just saying, I'm going to hand, I'm going to hand select you guys a couple of guides. And she may say that to everyone, but

  Katie

  I feel like when it's a fly shop owned by two people like a couple that they are hand selecting it's not like you have a random random guide generator online

  Mel

  that right let's do the spin wheel okay they get joey and then they get frank yeah so we you know I had told them we were interested in fishing the same spot the same stretch that we had fished in the past and she said great I'll put you for it. And this is when I booked months and months in advance. And then she said, I will call you about a week prior to your trip and kind of confirm and let you guys know if that's still the best area that we would suggest the best stretch. So I got her a call from her about a week prior. And she said, if I can convince you guys, I'd like to have you try a different stretch. And this would be the stretch of the river in town, just because it has been fishing a lot more consistently. Um, and I just think overall, you'll have a better, a better time there. Um, and I said, yeah, a hundred percent. Cause you know, when you're paying a guide service, you're partially paying for their expertise and where are you going to have the best day? So I figured, yeah, let's go for it. anything, you know, if they say this spot that if I was to say, no, I definitely want to go back to the spot that we did before. And then we caught zero fish. It would be on me.

  Katie

  Right. And the only reason you liked that spot was because it was good.

  Mel

  So, oh my gosh. Yeah. 

  Katie

  You know, if they're saying it's not good, then that's that. 

  Mel

  Right. And I guess I didn't really realize that for me, I guess my parents, they didn't care so much that we were in a less scenic place, but I thought the scenery was a big deal to me when I, after I went on this trip and I compared the two, because it was a, it was a fun. Okay. So let's say this first. It was a really fun day. Amazing. If, if you went there and that was your only day to fish, the float trip that we had this, this year was incredible. um I would have

  Katie

  the fact that you would fish the canyon the day before that skewed your opinion which is what Wyoming always says to Colorado for me every time I go to Wyoming I come back to Colorado and I'm like none of this compares to that level of fishing and so I mean you should have you should have floated the first day you were there

  Mel

  I know I know because we all caught fish numbers I don't know maybe like 10 ish for me maybe 10 ish for jared maybe a little less for my parents, but we still had a great time. Our guides were super fun. They were both very different and we actually switched boats halfway through. So Jerrett and I went in the other boat at lunch and then vice versa.

  Katie

  Yeah. And you say you caught like 10 fish each again, like you said on any other day, that would be incredible. Like regardless of how big they are, you know?

  Mel

  Yes. And I hooked a lot more. I think all of us hooked into a lot that got off, But yeah, so again, a great day of fishing. But I think, you know, I went into that trip. And I even told this to my dad, I said, Dad, I have to go into today, not thinking about how much I'm paying. Because then every moment, you're thinking, is this worth $500? Well, is this worth $500? You know, and to me, that's like a lot of that's a lot of money. So, so you don't want to, you don't want to categorize memories of your float day into, is it, is this

  Katie

  A dollar amount

  Mel

  Worth the money or not? Exactly. Yeah. And so, you know, we left the trip and, and again, we had a great day, but the two days prior, I would say were phenomenal. And then our float day was great. And so, and so we all got back to camp and I think it was that unspoken thing between all of us, Jerrett had a blast because he had never floated there before. And he had never fished in Wyoming before. So every day to him, everything's new. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. But I think between my parents and I, it was that unspoken idea of, well, we don't want to say that we were even slightly disappointed because of how much we paid for this day. And because we, you know, we used up one of our days with this float trip. And so it sort of came about where we were, I think my mom eventually mentioned it and said, so what would you, you know, how would you compare that to the last time we floated? You know, just subtly trying to see what I would say about it. And I said, you know, I, the scenery didn't really do it for me. Like we were going through town. We were, there was trash sometimes on the side of the river, or we were going next to people's retaining walls or whatnot. And she goes, Oh, okay. She goes, it wasn't so much the scenery for me, but, but the fishing, I just thought last time we did it and my dad kind of piped in then too and said, yeah, I just, I was getting, he was getting a little frustrated because he was getting, differing advice from the two guides one guide would say you're you're setting too hard and then the other or maybe it was the same guide was saying no you're not setting hard enough and he was kind of getting frustrated with that and the fishing wasn't as amazing as it was in the past and then I said listen if you would have only had that one day and we didn't have the canyon days to compare to you would have been float or any like 

  Katie

  exactly if you just randomly went on this trip it would be you would feel like the trip of a lifetime 

  Mel

  yeah yeah but you have these expectations already in your head and and those and it's natural you can't get them out of your head because 

  Katie

  you can't just like decide to forget them 

  Mel

  I mean yeah so all in all I will say we had a blast but my I think my dad's mentality of every time we go to Wyoming we must get a drift boat and hire guides.

  Katie

  Yeah, maybe that's good. Maybe that's good for you. Because I feel like if you, I don't like being locked into anything. Sometimes I feel this way about when we go to Wyoming anyway, because we always go to the same couple spots because they're always good. But sometimes I almost want to show up at the canyon or the meadow or whatever and just have it be trash. And then I'm like, you know what? I need to go find a new spot. Like I need to go explore and see something new. But every time I show up, it's good. And so I don't leave. And so it's like I just fish the and every day or wherever the meadow or wherever. And then I'm like, I've only ever fished a couple handful of spots there because I've never needed to leave. But, you know, maybe this is kind of your liberation from always feeling like you're required to book a guided trip. And maybe next time you can you can talk to them and be like, hey, how many fish are you catching? What size fish are you catching? Where is good floating right now? And if they're like, oh, actually, this super scenic section is fishing really well and people are catching lots of big fish, you can. But if they're oh actually the best spot right now is in town and the numbers are good you're like okay well that's kind of what we got this time and that didn't really do it for us because we really want I'm the same as you the scenery would matter a lot to me I could not catch that many fish on a guided trip but if I got a beautiful float with great scenery I'd be pretty content

  Mel

  because that's a that's a big part of it my dad was saying well I was too busy watching my indicator and whatnot But I was, you know, I was trying to enjoy the view. And like last trip we did, we were seeing owls in these little holes up in the rocks and pelicans and, you know, all sorts of cool stuff that this time I just feel like we lacked a bit. And you can and you could hear like highway noise right next to you. You can see Walmart as you're going down the river.

  Katie

  Yeah, I could see that. That would turn it. I would rather catch fewer fish, but get the better scenery.

  Mel

  Yeah. Yeah. And I was going to say the, the, the size of the fish were significantly smaller, which again is very relative when you're there fishing this river

  Katie

  probably great for anywhere else. 

  Mel

  But the, but the fact that we had those two days prior and catching those 20 plus inch rainbows, it was kind of just like, those were nice. Okay. Fish. But you know, overall it was, it was just a different experience for the overall trip, which, which is cool. And again, I, I definitely don't want to look back and have regrets about hiring guides, you know? Um, and so, yeah, it was, it was good. 

  Katie

  Yeah. I've, I've never been on a guided trip. 

  Mel

  Oh, you haven't? 

  Katie

  Nope. You know, and not as a client at least. 

  Mel

  Yeah. Yeah. Um, it's funny too, because I told Jerrett, while we were driving there, I said, I don't really want to make it well known to our guides that I used to guide because I always, you can always, always, always learn anything. You can always learn from somebody else in any, in any aspect of life, whether you're a professional or otherwise. And so I said, I don't really like them to know because I want to learn as much as I can from these guys. And I feel like maybe they wouldn't tell me as much if they knew that. And he goes, well, I would not warn me about that, but tell your dad because your dad loves to brag about you.

  Katie

  That's true. I can definitely see your dad. Yeah. You see that little lady over there? That's my daughter. And she was a guide.

  Mel

  And you know what? That's pretty much exactly what he did because I didn't stop him. I was like, you know what? That's a huge talking point for my dad. And sure enough, we were floating by my parents' boat at one point and he goes, see, that's her right there. And, oh, and then my mom said, he's telling the fly fishing story again, how you got into it. And I'm like, oh gosh. And the guiding and all that. So, yeah, I definitely didn't want to take that away from my dad, but, to be able to talk about it, but, but I still did. I learned a lot, from these guides and, you know, I, I told them that too. I said, listen, I did guide before, but I wasn't, I wasn't rowing when I guided. Um, and that is something that Jerrett and I want to get into is get a raft eventually. Um, and so even just navigating the river in a boat and how different that is from waiting and then just little techniques, little things here and there like they would say oh try this well you might already know this but and I said no no no tell me tell me tell me because I don't you know a lot of these things it's new news to me and

  Katie

  or like hyper localized I mean we were experts at guiding the places that we went but you know I still go places and I'm like I have no idea what to do here you know I mean a river is a river to an extent you're like okay I can read water I can tell you where fish are probably hanging out. I can tell you probably how deep I need to set my nymphs or like what dry to put on based on the time of the year or whatever. But at the end of the day, I can walk up to some Joe Schmoe who has never guided in his life. And because he's fished here his entire life, he's still going to outfish me because he knows what's going on in this particular location. So I could see guiding being relevant if you're like, you don't need to necessarily help me with my cast or whatever. I can get the fly out there just fine. But once it's out there, help me work it for this water. You know, it's not something I've done before in this spot. So like, yeah, give me your local knowledge for sure.

  Mel

  Yeah. Yeah. So I did. I feel like that's one thing I made sure to tell myself is learn from this trip. Okay. Don't just go in and try to catch all these fish, but you're paying these guides. So learn from them as well. And I did. And so I think that was worth it for sure.

  Katie

  I think if I, I mean, I would like to go on a guided trip at some point it just hasn't happened I mean around here a lot of the places that I would be guided are not places I'm particularly interested in fishing — looking at you South Platte River Cheeseman Canyon and Deckers and like like that's those are the places that I would need a guide and I just don't particularly want to go there and pay a bunch of money so so

  Mel

  you want to go somewhere it's new like new to you completely new

  Katie

  I want to go somewhere that's new to me and that I don't already have a bad taste in my mouth about. Yeah. Yeah. Like I would totally hire someone to float me down the Colorado. Like that would be something I would definitely do, but I don't really care to go to Deckers. Yeah. So that's why I haven't yet, but I'm definitely not opposed to, and I would like to go on a guided trip at some point. For like you said, I mean, I think it's also easy when you fish a lot to kind of always do the same thing. Like you find what works for you and you do that. And if it's not quite the best thing to do that day, you'll kind of manipulate it until it does work. And it's nice to pick someone else's brain who's like, have you ever thought about trying this? And it's like, well, no, because I'm not super comfortable with that technique or whatever. And just give it a try. So I would definitely like to go out with some guides at some point on some on some river that I'm not familiar with and be like, just fill me with information, you know, tell me everything I need to know.

  Mel

  Yeah, that's definitely one of the things I've been thinking about, as I want to expand my fly fishing knowledge is I want to branch out from my comfort zone, because like you said, I definitely have my comfort zone. Um, anything that I haven't had major success with, or even things that I haven't tried, such as, euro nymphing or anything like that, it's intimidating and you have what works for you and you have this system that catches fish for you. So why veer from it? But at this point, I'm kind of like, you know, I don't have the best of luck with streamers because I haven't really given them much of a chance because I love nymphing because I always catch fish. So I should try streamers a little bit more. Like, I don't know, just stuff like that, you know?

  Katie

  Yeah. Streamers are definitely like of the big three, if we're talking about like dries, nymphs, streamers. I'm definitely the least comfortable with streamers because it's not that relevant in a lot of places I fish because it's such small water that, you know, I'm so used to throwing like a dry dropper all day long. I can catch fish because that is definitely what's the most useful in the areas that I fish most often. And then just, you know, straight up dry flies or like an indicator nymph rig also fairly relevant for around here. And streamers, I feel like are better on some of the larger rivers, which we just don't have a ton of around here without driving a little farther. And I'm usually looking close to home, like after work and stuff like that. So it, I use them, but I'm definitely not as comfortable with them as some other techniques where I feel like I've got it down. There's almost like not much left to learn on some of these, like, I mean, there's only so many ways you can fish a parachute Adams, you know, there's not much left to learn. It's just executing it. Whereas for streamers, I feel like there's a lot left for me to learn just because I haven't experienced all the situations that might arise at this point. So yeah, I think, I think what you have to do at some point is be like, okay, I've, I really have caught enough fish. If I go, I should just make myself go try a new technique. And if I don't catch anything, so what? 

  Mel

  Like I'll still be happy. 

  Katie

  Yeah. I've caught plenty of fish. So be satisfied. Yeah. I've kind of wanted to do that with like wet flies, like swinging wet flies. That's something I'd like to try a little more, But the same thing has always happened where I've got some in my box and I'm always like, well, but I could throw on a nymph. So yeah, so yeah, I get that. We could do like an accountability thing where like for the next month, we have to go fishing at least like five times each. And on those times, like you have to use whatever thing that you're working on and I have to use whatever thing I'm working on and like check back in afterward and be like,

  Mel

  or just something different. You know, it doesn't have to be the same thing, but it's like, did you tie your nymphs on differently this time you know

  Katie

  like try like tying them on the tag ends instead of to the bend of the hook like yeah it'd be fun to almost like report back to each other like here's the new technique I tried and here's what happened and just compare you know compare notes 

  Mel

  that'd be fun I like that idea 

  Katie

  all right maybe we can do that this summer like pick a month and be like we're only only using new techniques

  Mel

  yeah Jerrett and I are going to Montana this weekend however the goal was to hit the salmon fly hatch, which I don't think, I think we're still a little early. I planned this trip a while back for his birthday celebration. And we rented this little a frame cabin, on the river, but, it was kind of looking at the historic dates of this certain river. And when the salmon fly hatch was, because that's another one of my big goals is to, is to hit a salmon fly hatch, like in the heart of it, you know, Jerrett's never used those huge flies. I rarely have. Maybe I'm the Colorado River once or twice. But other than that, it's been a long time. And so I thought that would be super fun for his birthday this year. And just with our low snowpack and everything, I thought we would have an early spring. But we recently, or we as in Idaho, Montana has gotten a lot of precipitation and some snow higher up as well. So we talked to the owner of the A-frame yesterday and he said, it's pretty blown out. So bring your hot dogs for the campfire. Cause I asked him, or the salmon flies coming off. And he's like, Oh, bring your hot dogs. No, like dang it. Um, but we're still going to try, but who knows? Uh, so yeah. So, I mean, definitely other times I'd love to do some different techniques and report back. And I'll definitely have to, you know, watch some videos online or things like that to get ideas of just new little things to try. Or maybe if we can bounce stuff off each other, too.

  Katie

  Yeah. And I know we were going to do bucket list trips, too. But I think we're running short on time.

  Mel

  So, yeah, I know. This has been awesome. I know. I'm like, we didn't. I don't even need this. I'm going to put my sunglasses on and I'm not even going to look down at it.

  Katie

  I didn't look at my list at all. I think I kept right everything. And by running short on time, I mean we didn't actually have a time limit, but we've been going for an hour 45 now.

  Mel

  We have? No way. We have. Jerrett, have you eaten? I told him to wait for me. I was like, I'll be an hour.

  Katie

  All right, guys. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to head over to the website, fishuntamed.com, for all episodes and show notes. And also, please subscribe on your favorite podcasting app. That'll get my episodes delivered straight to your phone. And also, if you have not yet, please consider going over to Apple Podcasts and leaving a rating or review. That's very helpful for me, and I'd greatly appreciate it. Other than that, thank you guys again for listening, and I will be back in two weeks. Bye, everybody. like that joke what did the fish say when it hit the wall damn

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